Fish in a fruit jar?

[Robert H]

You know, I don't get up on a soap box for a cause very often...but this
just infurates me and I have to share it. Pardon the off topic...

Reading the May issue of FAMA magazine and a little article by Joy Tippit:

an aticle explaining how to build your own Aqua baby with a betta... USING A FRUIT JAR!!! She even has a picture of it, it is literally no bigger than a mayonaise jar! She says to use a fruit jar with a spider house plant growing in it!!! MY God! And this is a respectable magazine! She called it the perfect gift for a child.... She doesn't even mention that you should change the water once in a while! She does acknowledge that the room temp may be a little cold for the fish!

Now for the last couple of years there has been a big hubbabalu and a boycott of Aquababies, a commercial deathtrap that holds one betta or other fish, as well as the Betta vase, but this is even worse...and actually promoted in a national magazine!!! Its no bigger than a betta bowl! This is totally disgusting! This writer should be fired! Not only is every Betta society, club, and association against keeping bettas in such small containers, even PETA has taken issue with it! But to tell people in a printed magazine its OK to keep a betta in a little mayonaise jar?

What
gets me is in the same magazine, there is a regular Betta colum by a presumed Betta expert, Gene Lucas. I'm really tempted to email him and demand he speak up against the nonsense. Now I have seen some questionable articles in FAMA before, but this really takes the cake. Not only is the writer off her rocker, but the fact the magazine would print such a thing is disgusting.
People should email FAMA and give them a little education.

FAMA Magazine
P.O. Box 487
Sierra Madre, California 91025
Fax : (626) 355-6415
Phone: (626) 355-1476, or (800) 523-1736.
info@famamagazine.com

Robert Paul Hudson

[dethjam316]

i really don't want to weigh on this argument, because it's presented on just about every forum or newsgroup occasionally so it seems...but bear in mind those brilliant minds at PETA also thought this was a good idea:

http://www.cnn.com/US/9609/06/fishy.name/
http://www.boston.com/dailynews/112/region/PETA_asks_town_to_change_its_n%3A.shtml

i wouldn't use their support for anything as credible evidence.

[carpguy]

Despite PETA agreeing with him, Robert is right. Bettas don't belong in small jars or even in those little betta bowls. Think 1 gallon minimum, and on the warm side of room temp with very regular water changes.

Some betta folk do use large mason jars. These are not to be confused with small mason jars, jelly jars, mayonaisse jars, or anything that says something like "24 oz." on the side.

[TKOS]

I started with Bettas a couple of years ago and first used to keep them in small jars. I didn't have much luck with them but then switched to keeping them in nice little 1 gallon thing i found at Wal-Mart. Right now I have a single Betta in his own 5 gallon and he is a joy to watch as he swims back and forth exploring and building bubble nests. I can't imagine going back to watching the lonely floating betta in a jar. They are much too majestic of a fish to do that to.

[TomFromStLouis]

I used my betta as the first fish in my 70 gallon tank. With a lot of plants and 70 gallons of space, he was swimming all over the place after a few hours. He 'surfed' the outflow tube jets and seemd to be having the time of his life. He still does.

Bettas swim around and enjoy space as much as any other fish. They deserve a quality environment.

[Converseballer]

yeah right PETA is dumb they are trying to change the name of the town i live in (Hamburg) to veggieburg...if thats not dumb i dont know what is i dont think betta should be kept in small jars in such but if PETA is involved........i'm not

[ChilDawg]

Converseballer, there are some cases where people with whom I disagree intensely have good ideas, and PETA is dead on with this one. I understand your dislike for them, but, if it is a worthy cause, why would you not do something?

I've actually done work for my school on Volunteer Day, though the organization Planned Parenthood was affiliated with the Day as well. You can work independently of PETA, just like I worked independently from Planned Parenthood.

[thom336]

I have mentioned this before, but it fits in here that in Germany it is illegal to keep fish in a tank less than 60L (13Gals). I would hate that to be the case here in the UK, not becuase I'm pro mini tanks, I'm not, but because small aquaria do have their uses. For example, the rearing of young livebearer fry in 5gal tanks.

But fish in a jam jar is outragous - especially if it is done with kids in mind. Over here in the UK, certainly around where I live, there is a sort of expression 'keeping bettas in jam jars' - but it doesnt mean it literally, and actually refers to tanks of about 4gals - which is really an absolute minimum for any fish. And the keeping of fish in such small spaces is really a job only for experianced aquarists who have the knowledge and capabilities to do as such.

Unfortunately bettas are taken advantage of in the way of keeping them in very small 'tanks' (if you can really call them as such) as, being anabantoids, they have their labyrinth organ (a sort of lung) which allows them to breath atmospheric air - and hence can survive in rather stagnant water, but that is all it is really: survive, not flourish. But they do need space to swim and stretch out...I would put an absolute minimum tank size for them as 4gals - preferably larger, as large as you can go.

Thom.

[wetmanNY]

It's not the volume of water that counts for a betta. It's the plants. Especially the plant cover overhead. Tom from St Louis is the only one here who's mentioned "plants."

Keeping a betta in a large tank with a mishmash of other fishes and no place to lurk is as primitive as the jam jar, pretty much.

I keep a Paradisefish, that other solitary jealous territorial anabantoid lurker in weedy waters, in a drum-shaped glass salad bowl, 10" diameter, water depth 4." That's 314 cubic inches, less than 1.5 gallons. It's so packed with young plants that he has to eel his way around.

This is a more massive fish than a betta. He's possessive of this territory. He challenges me, or the barbs in a nearby tank.

He gets a 40% water change every five days or so. I've just tested his nitrates and they're undetectable.

Am I just a New Yorker, or is the quality of your furniture more essential than the size of your apartment?

[OrionGirl]

I disagree. I have several fish who will challenge me when I approach their tank--one being a 4.5 inch mandarin goby (SW) who is in a 65 gallon tank with few tankmates. He doesn't challenge me because he's insecure or has inadequate space, he challenges me because that is HIS tank, and I better durn well know it. Fish don't have a concept of how many gallons their home is, they understand what meets their needs. IMO, the problem with small tanks is the lack of cover, the lack of challenge. Every betta I've had has patrolled his turf constantly, poking at snails, messing around with leaves--I have one now who pushes a marble around. Keeping a fish like this in a space he can barely turn around in is pretty sorry, and, well, they get bored. Given something to bully and push around and inspect, and they will be fine.

[isaac newton]

Thank god i dont live in europe.. Your life in europe seems way to regulated.. You cant keep a fis in less then 13 gallons!!!!! I have a 10 gallon tank with 12 neon a cory 3 dwarf puffers a alge eater and 2 crabs and they all do fine.... Kinda funny, the goverment in germany has a huge tax rate and then spend your money creating a bill to regulate the size of your fishtank.. :o

[thom336]

Sorry, I deleted last post so what was said last by OrionGirl may not make alot of sence as I didnt phrase what I said very well...

But what I was trying to say was:

So many fish do suffer and die in small, unfiltered aquaria each year. Our successes with such small tanks do not mean that these tanks work, but that they can work in the hands of the experianced. The experiance, might I add, who know to keep an eye on water quality, carry out regular water changes, plant the tanks up well, and meet the needs of the fish. Whereas the less experianced, who the article was aimed at, would not know to do these things, and were apparently not informed to within the article.

And the mention of (in the deleted post by me...maybe I shouldnt have deleted it now come to think of it) the fish challenging the owner as being a sign of insecurity was just me putting across another view of these actions, and saying that they are not always a good sign. Maybe I should have made that more clear.

Thom.

[wetmanNY]

(In fact OrionGirl and I are in agreement here. I meant when I said that he challenges me, to imply that he's at home in a recognizable territory worth defending.)

[OrionGirl]

Yeah, I was disagreeing with what thom336 said immediately following you, and then deleted. This is why deleting thread should not be done--explain in another post if needed, but deleting them causes too much confusion.

:)

[Robert H]

PETA got involved to an extent with the Aquababys issue, if anyone remembers RK Aquaria, she was leading a boycott against Aquababies, and PETA put it on their WEB site. I never said they were involved with this.

The Betta Vase, and apparently Joy Tippets home made betta fruit jar, has a terrestrial plant stuck in it with the roots growing in the water. In the Betta vase it is a "Peace Lily".

I have heard the arguement that Bettas have a special lung or something that allows them to breathe is very small containers or very shallow water. Thats not the point. Keeping a fish in a container where all it can do is basically turn around and float motionless in the water is ridiculous. And to keep it in unheated, unfiltered, and motionless water is cruel.

All animals need some sort of stimulous. Animals get bored, complacent and lathargic without it. Even a fish needs exercise!

Betta bowls are used in stores as temporary housing to display their colors and keep the fighting males separate, not as permanant housing.

The other claim about the Betta vase is you never have to feed it...it feeds off the roots of the plant. Last I heard Bettas were meat eaters. My wholesale paper supplier has a Betta Vase on their counter. It had a Betta AND a African frog in it...that is until 3 weeks later when I went in and all it had was the sickly looking betta. Big surprise.

Oh, and sorry Tom, I don't consider a fruit jar "small aquaria" for the experienced. A fruit jar is for fruit. Not a fish!

[thom336]

Originally posted by thom336
Unfortunately bettas are taken advantage of in the way of keeping them in very small 'tanks' (if you can really call them as such) as, being anabantoids, they have their labyrinth organ (a sort of lung) which allows them to breath atmospheric air - and hence can survive in rather stagnant water, but that is all it is really: survive, not flourish. But they do need space to swim and stretch out...I would put an absolute minimum tank size for them as 4gals - preferably larger, as large as you can go.

Thom.

Robert, I did mention the 'special lung' already...and clearly stated that it was beside the point and not a reason to keep them in the jars. In the same paragraph (which is the one quoted) I also mentioned that they need space to swim. If it was me that you were refering to calling the the jars 'small aquaria', then you will also find a bit in this quote that counteracts what I said. I am in agreement with you Robert, and one of the first things I said in this thread was that it was outragous at fish being kept in fruit jars.

And orionGirl and wetmanNY, I am also aware that OrionGirl was disagreeiing with what I said, i was just explaining that the behaviour observered isnt always a good sign, to which extent wetmanNY seemed to put it. This was one reason I deleted the post, as what was written was taken in the wrong context.

Thom.

[BluEyes]

Originally posted by Robert H
even PETA has taken issue with it!

uh, PETA opposes any captive animals - PERIOD, so it's nop suprise that they oppose this as well. Their basic stance is that any animal is better off "set free" than under even the best human care. These are the people who break into research facilities and let dozens of monkeys loose in the middle of a city!
Now, I'll agree that not ALL research is necassary, but ALOT is very beneficial - and certainly better than getting run over by cars.

[Robert H]

OK, forget PETA..who cares! Is it appropiate for a national magazine to tell people to keep a betta in a small fruit jar or mason jar? I think not! If you agree, write FAMA and let them know!

[carpguy]

Since it was mentioned, and since it seems to come up whenever this does, I just wanted to chime in on the whole anabantid/labyrinth thing.

I got this from Barron's book on Bettas (paraphrased):

All of the anabantoids have a modified gill arch (bone) that became vascularized and convoluted into a small chamber, called the labyrinth organ. This allows them to get supplementary oxygen from the air. The complexity of the labyrinth varies across the anabantoid spectrum, being most complex in snakeheads, then in the larger gouramis, on down to simplest in the bettas.

They are the least good at getting supplemental O2 from the air: they can get some but it shouldn't be treated as a primary source, the water still needs to be oxygenated. Just another argument for regular water changes and a healthier surface area then the small jars, bowls, and vases can provide.

And agreed, FAMA should be more responsible about discouraging bad practice.