View Full Version : Sick Angels. Lost two so far...
Hello everyone.
Last night I lost my 2nd angel to some type of fungus infection. I tried treating them with Jungle Pond Fungus Eliminator plus 25% water changes per day as told by a local breeder.
When that showed no signs of improvement I asked a friend who runs a pet store and was told to use MarOxy and Maracyn which I did for two days.
maybe it was too late?...I dont know.
As it stands right now. I have 3 black and silver angels with red and slightly swollen areas where the pectoral fins attach to the body. None of the three show any signs of fungus growth but all three are not eating and seem to just stare off into space.
My water is..
PH...7.5
Ammonia...1.2
Nitrate...0
Nitrite...0
Water temp.....87
Thanks for any help
Nessy.
wataugachicken
03-09-2007, 6:32 PM
wow - your ammonia is WAY too high! angels are pretty sensitive fish, and from looking at your parameters i'm going to guess that you just set this tank up and put the angels into it? when angels don't eat that's a major sign that something is wrong.
right now, do more water changes to get ammonia down below .25 ppm. 50% changes back to back if you have to. empty half, fill it up, empty half, etc. . the last time you refill the tank, fill it up so that the water level is about 1-2 inches LOWER than where the water comes out of the filter. ammonia is a toxin that affects the gills, and makes it difficult for the fish to breathe. your water temp is also pretty high, and the warmer the water is, the less oxygen it holds. dropping the water level a bit will increase the amount of oxygen in the water because there will be more water movement at the surface. also you should slowly (over a day or two) reduce the temp down to about 78-80 degrees.
once that is done, read about cycling in the freshwater newbie thread. there is a link in the top part of the page (sticky section) called freshwater cycling.
once you have some more info, decide whether you want to keep the angels and try to cycle with them (bad idea, you'll probably have to do water changes twice a day for several weeks) or take the angels back to where you got them and do a fishless cycle.
Thanks for the reply..
I just did a water change today 50% but I had to take the filter material out for the fungus meds. I've had the tank and fish for about a year.
Would the high ammonia levels cause the redness?
wataugachicken
03-09-2007, 6:50 PM
ammonia that high is likely enough to start irritating the fish's skin, so yes. or it could be gill inflamation causing redness all the way down to the pectoral fin areas. either way, yes, ammonia is the cause. taking out the filter media just made it worse because you removed a large part of any bacteria that might have started to grow. put the media back in and don't worry about fungus treament unless you actually SEE fungus on the fish. it's kinda white/gray/yellow and fuzzy.
the reason i say that your tank isn't cycled is because you posted that you had 0 nitrates - a cycled tank has 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and some level of nitrates, at least 5-10ppm. they probably have been removed at this point by the water changes, but you should still see more of them showing up every day.
Rbishop
03-09-2007, 6:51 PM
A one yr old tank with those readings..? Do the water changes in small increments, daily if not twice a day.
jm1212
03-09-2007, 7:15 PM
what else is in the tank?
how big is the tank?
what is your water change schedule?
a tank of adequate size and stock should not have 1.2 ammoina. you need to get it down. angels may be tougher than some people think, but the only angel i have known to survive ammoina that high (and much higher) is in the tank right next to me right now, long story short, she was in a 5 gallon tank that rarely had water changes, and was given to me when the orig. owner moved, but shes a real fighter. it took a long time to get her back into tip-top shape after the ammoina incident.
The tank is a 55 gal. I'm thinking the high ammonia was due to the fact I had to take the filters out for the Jungle fungus meds.
I just did a 50% water change and my wife is testing the ammonia level now.
If this doesnt drop the level do I keep on until its down to .25? Or get something to add to the water to drop the ammonia level?
wataugachicken
03-09-2007, 7:25 PM
keep doing the changes, adding chemicals at this point is probably going to stress the angels even more and make their condition worse. fresh clean water is going to be the best thing for them.
ok right now I'm at .80 with the last water change.
doing the changes isnt a problem cause we have great well water...
Thank you so much for your help!!!!!!
I am thinking I should wait to do the 55 again. The fish seem kind-of
stress out right now. Do you agree with this or should I go ahead and do another change?
wataugachicken
03-09-2007, 8:12 PM
do another one, just don't move it around too much. keep the end of the hose in one place, and below the water level when you fill it back up.
Rbishop
03-09-2007, 8:13 PM
Small 10-15%, every 10-12 hrs.
Will do...Sorry if the posts sound a little different. Me and my wife have been posting back. Thank you, thank you, thank you for your help.
You people are awesome!
You have just gained 2 life time members here...:)
The water heater is about ready again. We have been keeping it close to the same temp thats in the tank. 83 deg. during all the water changes so the temp difference wouldnt be such a shock.
jm1212
03-09-2007, 8:27 PM
your amminia may skyrocket again if your tank is overstocked. what else is in the tank besides the angels?
your amminia may skyrocket again if your tank is overstocked. what else is in the tank besides the angels?
about 12 smaller fish like neon tetras (spelling?) and two clown fish.
ok we got it down to about .25
I'm thinking I should leave it at that for the night so they can calm down some and recheck in the AM.
(about 8 hours)
I want to thank you all again for taking the time to help.
I wanted to just thank everyone again for helping us last night. We have the ammonia to .25 to 0.
After the water changes I put the filters back in.
I was reading the box for the Maracyn and Maroxy and noticed what I didnt before. Unlike the Jungle fungus med you dont have to remove the filters media....I guess both of us were in the panic mode after the 2nd loss from the fungus.
Anyways no one else is showing any signs of the fungus and the water QC is looking good.
I have a pic of the redness I was trying to describe and the fin bases.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e324/cherokee606/fish001.jpg
Rbishop
03-10-2007, 9:58 AM
Just keep up on the tank maintenance and water changes. You are using a good liquid test kit, vice dip strips?
Most meds will recommend removing carbon when you use them, but not necessarily the filter pads. I run sponge filters in addition to standard filtration on all tanks. If I ever have to med a tank that endangers the bacteria, I do a large water change and vac to begin with. DO my treatment, then pull sponges from other tanks to get my bacteria back faster.
nessy
03-10-2007, 10:07 AM
Just keep up on the tank maintenance and water changes. You are using a good liquid test kit, vice dip strips?
Most meds will recommend removing carbon when you use them, but not necessarily the filter pads. I run sponge filters in addition to standard filtration on all tanks. If I ever have to med a tank that endangers the bacteria, I do a large water change and vac to begin with. DO my treatment, then pull sponges from other tanks to get my bacteria back faster.
Its the Laguna master test kit. (Liquid) We have tried the strips for our 4500 gal koi pond, I really dont like the test strips because sometimes I would get different readings. The Laguna tests for PH, Hardness, Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate.
ct-death
03-10-2007, 10:10 AM
Oops, didn;t see the 2nd page! :)
Looking good so far!
jm1212
03-10-2007, 12:56 PM
it looks like some bad ammoina burn and perhaps even some nitrite burn to me. keep up with your water changes and test the water every day, and they should start to improve.
it looks like some bad ammoina burn and perhaps even some nitrite burn to me. keep up with your water changes and test the water every day, and they should start to improve.
Thanks jm1212
We will. As it stands now we have the ammonia down to nothing by doing the water changes and adding the Activated carbon back into the filters.
water QC
Ammonia...0
PH...7.5
Nitrite..0
Nitrate..0
Temp..82
jm1212
03-10-2007, 3:47 PM
it sounds like your tank may still be going though the cycle. it may take a while (about a month), and alot of testing and water changes, but it will be worth it in the end.
Star_Rider
03-10-2007, 10:26 PM
wow. i missed this thread.
it is not uncommon to have those areas show up pink/red.
much of it depends on the color mprph you have..when you find fish with lighter colors gold and silver..those areas show up red. it is where the fin and body join..
I have healthy male gold koi..both of them have the same red.
it could be a result of nitrites..but I have scalare that recovered from ammonia burns..when that happens the fins erode. literal burning away from the tip towards the base.
generally nitrite problems are indicated by red gills.
stay on top of your water changes.
angelfishlover
03-12-2007, 7:51 AM
u noe the ph is alkaline u should try keep them in acidic water around 5.5-6.5 they will do best in these ph levels
Star_Rider
03-12-2007, 9:13 PM
u noe the ph is alkaline u should try keep them in acidic water around 5.5-6.5 they will do best in these ph levels
actually most domestic angels can thrive in a much higher pH..
5.5-6.5 may be a good range for some wild angels..but most do quite well in a neutral pH (read as pH7.0)up to and including pH 8
mine spawn in pH7.2 .
Sorry it took so long to get back. Had to fix the filter on the Koi pond.
Everyone seems to be doing well.
Ammoina is still nothing
PH 7.5
Nitrite..0
Nitrate..0
Water temp..82
The redness on Zorro is going away but he and his mate are not eating as much as they did before this mess.
Thanks again everyone for your help..:)
madtundra
03-13-2007, 7:23 PM
i would test my well water out of the tap to be sure there's no amms from your well. if your or a nieghbors septic is leaking you can get nitrate and ammonia readings in your well water!