View Full Version : cycle or plant first?
I know someone asked this a short time ago, but I can't reme,ber the answer.
Should I cycle a new tank first and then plant it, OR cycle it with the plants already in it?
Thanks, D
JSchmidt
12-06-2002, 1:11 PM
I believe the common advice is to cycle first, then plant. Otherwise, I believe algae can be a significant problem.
Jim
slipknottin
12-06-2002, 2:08 PM
depends... if you want a heavily planted tank, just load in the plants and add fish.
the plants take ammonia in directly and your tank will never actually "cycle"
however, if you want a moderate or small amount of plants, it would be wise to cycle the tank first. plants dont use nitrites, but algaes do.
TnCgal
12-06-2002, 2:10 PM
Hi, Ozma !
Welcome to AquariaCentral, home of the most planted tanks in the entire planet.
Jim is absolutely correct if you are doing a fishless cycle, you will want to plant after your cycle is complete. If you are cycling with fish, you might want to consider planting before you cycle because the plants will help decrease toxic exposure on the fish.
Thanks for the clear and succinct answers! I was plannng on moderately planted and fishless cycling. I'll cycle first.
OZma
koolkatzfish
12-08-2002, 5:08 AM
I fishless cycled my 44 and one of the articles reccommended live plants left in the pots to help seed the bacteria. I already had an amazon sword in my 20, and I bought a water sprite and a crypt and a year later all are still doing well, my amazon is over 12 inches tall and the water sprite is 20 inches tall and I have to trim it back monthly. I don't know if it sped the cycle up an, it still took about 4 weeks, but I added a lot of ammonia, which I think may have slowed it down some.
So I vote plant and cycle simultaneously.
wetmanNY
12-08-2002, 6:40 AM
People are afraid that it you don't struggle through a "nitrite spike" the tank hasn't truly cycled. They fear that plants will compete with bacteria for the ammonia (they will, it's true) to the point where the bacteria never get established.
Plant the tank and get on with it! Planted aquaria cycle easily. It's the "box of water" you struggle over.
The concern over fishless cycling with planted tanks is that algae outbreaks may be much more likely with the high ammonia levels many folk us in fishless cycling. Then the novice is left with green water or hair algae in their tank and have to combat that.
The original popularization of fishess cycling suggested potted plants left in their pots (with the rock-wool) as a means to introduce nitrification bacteria to the tank. That works quite well if no other easy source of bacteria is convenient. But there is a world of difference between a tank with one or two potted plants sitting in it and a planted tank.
HTH
wetmanNY
12-08-2002, 3:06 PM
mmm, if everyone has a philodendron on their desk, is it a "planted office?"
HazyWater
12-08-2002, 4:02 PM
The purpose of a cycle is to remove ammonia. Turns out plants do this quite well too. The plants will compete for the ammonia, but they won't be able to outcompete the bacteria to the extent everyone fears. The colonies will be smaller than a non-planted tank, but thats to be expected.
I mean, if you heavily plant a tank after you've cycled it, are you starving the bacteria colonies to such an extent that your tank isn't 'cycled' anymore? It doesn't matter which road you take, you'll end up in the same spot. One path is just faster and the other seems safer. Just keep the number of fish you plan on having in mind when you add ammonia. You want your aquarium to handle that amount of ammonia on a daily basis.
In either case, you're going to fight algae, but the sooner you plant your tank, the less of a fight it will be, imo. How can algae be more of a problem in a planted cycling tank? They use the same nutrients, except for nitrite. You'd get less nitrite if the tank is planted. The nitrite colonies will have to build up just the same, regardless of plants and in compitition with algae.
I disagree strongly with the statement "In either case, you're going to fight algae, but the sooner you plant your tank, the less of a fight it will be, imo." Perhaps many folks dealing with plants for the first time are doomed to fight algae, but not every newly set planted tank turns into an algae farm. If they did, I would not have any planted tanks.
High levels of ammonia do favor algae. In a heavily planted tank after the plants are established (not overnight), the levels of ammonia should never be detectable by hobby kits. Big difference there from fishless cycling levels.
I do agree that the colonies of the nitrification bacteria in healthy planted tanks will be significantly reduced in comparison to those in FO tanks. But I promise you it is easier to have your over-size colonies die back than to fight algae infestations.
StevieM
12-13-2002, 11:59 AM
I recently had a two fold problem with my tank cycling and I don't believe that it has truly "cycled" yet. It sort of coincides with this thread so I guess it might be good place to ask it. I medicated my tank while on the verge of cycling about a month after I first got it set up....this wrecked my colonies as the readings of ammonia rose over the next week, the nitrites were fluctuating, and the nitrates went down to 0 and have been there ever since. That was 1.5 months ago. It seemed the ammo>nitrite bacteria were on the rise as I started getting rising levels of nitrite and then a problem with my water going quite acidic inhibited or destroyed them again. 2.5 to 3 months into my foray I am reading about 1.0 ammo, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrate...and i am still doing h20 changes to keep ammo low after getting the pH stabilized and things on the up and up. I have a lightly planted 20g high tank with 2 micro sword pots, hygro, and 2 apon bulbs. Do I need to worry about these ammo levels? Will I ever see a Nirtrite spike again? Do you think with the plants in there it will ever really cycle? Or am I cycled and because I do two water changes in a week that's why i have no Nitrates? Either way, I am just a little curious what I should expect at this point...especially with the plants and Ammo levels regarding bac. pop. Algae is not really a problem at this point...little here and there, but my Bristlenose makes quick work of it when he finds it. Hope to hear from you all, thanks
steve
99RedSi
12-17-2002, 2:31 PM
After reading this thread I still don't understand what the general consensus is regarding the original question.
I'd rather cycle the tank with nothing in it and then add a HUGE load of plants. But the tank would go from no plants to heavily planted within a matter of hours! Is this the best way to do it? If not, what is the *best* way on average? (Everyone's experiences differ - I'm just looking for on average).
99RedSi - I consider your proposed technique conservative and the least likely to result in algae problems.