Onyx Sand

[ArkyLady]

Seachem claims that Onyx Sand has "buffering capabilities". I'm assuming this means it helps raise/stabalize KH levels?

I have very low KH (around 1), so if this is really true I'm thinking Onyx Sand would be my best bet for a substrate. Plus it looks awesome. Is Onyx Sand alone suitable for a planted tank? Or will I need to mix something with it (under it)?

Thanks!

[Sumpin'fishy]

It works very well alone! Your situation is probably the ideal use for Onyx. :)

[125gJoe]

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I agree with Sumpin'fishy... You don't need anything added to Onyx for live plants. But, I do put Root Tabs down for added fertilization, and use liquid fertz too.. :)

[nvision]

go for it! http://aquariacentral.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

wash well.

[RTR]

Flourite, Flourite Red, Onxy Gravel and Onyx Sand are excellent substrates for planted tanks. They do not however contain required nutrients other than iron. I'm not sure how this proto-myth has arisen on the web, but Seachem makes no such claim for the products, and they certainly would if it were true, nor do experienced planted tank folk use these substrates without supplements. They are good substrates due to their structure and porosity which gives them the ability to complex many minerals , holding them for the plants easy access, but they do not come loaded with them.

They are excellent substrates, but not fertilizers. Big difference, huge.

[Heady]

I'll be using plantbrain's suggestion for minimizing this problem:

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3131&highlight=peat+onyx

[ArkyLady]

I didn't mean to suggest that I thought I could just use the onyx sand and never use any fertilizer for the plants. I just wanted to make sure that the onyx sand didn't need to be mixed with something else (flourite, laterite, etc) to make it better.

In my outdoor garden I use Miracle Grow potting soil, but I mix it with humus. Even with the best soil to start with, I still use fertilizers. I'd assumed this would be the same for aquariums :)

[Sumpin'fishy]

You understood exactly what 80gJoe and I were saying, Arkylady. The substrate doesn't need to be mixed with anything else for excellent growth potential. Of coarse fertilizing is a separate issue, and I strongly suggest it.

[nvision]

yeah, maybe my recent post on onyx may have contributed to this myth. in it i did mention "more fertile substrate", which could be misleading. apologies.

[125gJoe]

http://gordon.sourcecod.com/images/flagicons/american_flag.gif
A quote from Dr. Foster Smith new catalog on page 118, "Substrates -
Start with a high quality, mineral rich gravel such as SeaChem's Flourite or Onyx Sand to lay the foundation for further success. Although a low cost gravel may save money in the short term, this will be more than offset by using more supplements to make up for the shortcomings of such gravels."

With that statement, is Iron the only mineral in Onyx?

This is from SeaChem's website: "Onyx Sand™ provides not only iron and other minerals but supports optimal KH levels for freshwater planted aquariums. Onyx Sand™ is most effective when used alone...."

Seems like SeaChem is claiming to have other beneficial minerals in it, not just Iron.

RTR, yes, Onyx is in no way a fertilizer, but a superior substrate.

[RTR]

The Seachem substrates are high porosity, high CEC. They can grab and hold minerals from the water for easy access by plants. They do not come pre-fertilized other than with large amounts of iron which is part of their nature. Inexpensive gravels lack that CEC.

Write Greg Morin (owner and CEO of Seachem) and ask, don't take my word for it.

Seachem substrates are well worth their price - I do use them and am quite pleased with them, but I know better than to think that they are by nature or by addition pre-marketing, "fertile". That is quite simply not true.

[aquatic-store]

Even using this product I thnk it would be wise to still fert your plants. the suggesti

marc
Http://www.Aquatic-store.com

Co2, Plants, Substrate, Filters, Heaters, UV and moreons above are true!

[125gJoe]

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Here's what's in Onyx Sand, and what makes it a great substrate - regular gravels don't have this....


There is more than just iron, see below:

Onyx sand (ppm) Element
10.27 Ag
822.5 Al
51.91 As
4.45 Ba
0.2907 Be
197500 Ca
11.82 Cd
3.632 Co
10.14 Cr
4.295 Cu
2876 Fe
417 K
115400 Mg
43.01 Mn
6.419 Mo
135.1 Na
7.103 Ni
284.2 P
30.46 Pb
20.64 Sb
103.2 Se
159.2 Si
62.77 Sr
42.31 Ti
753.3 Tl
7.457 V
22.81 Zn

(Element breakdown courtesy - SeaChem...)

[NJ Devils Fan]

I do the same thing that Joe does, use root tabs and liquid ferts.

[Heady]

The 100 gallon with Onyx sand, set up 12 hours ago, is still really cloudy. The Eheim 2028 has been running the full 12 hours. When will it settle? Should I do a partial water change or will that only make matters worse?

The Onyx was rinsed as best we could in buckets with a showerhead and good old fashioned elbow grease, but apparently it wasn't enough...

[125gJoe]

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Heady, do you have Diatom filter? A partial water change will help some..

[Heady]

No diatom filter. I would do a partial water change, but I'm worried about kicking up the silt that's already settled...

[bmarcus]

onyx buffers your water to like a 7.2-7.5

[99RedSi]

Originally posted by bmarcus
onyx buffers your water to like a 7.2-7.5

What if your pH is 7.3 and KH is 10 (already buffered fairly well)? Will it make the water very hard?

Thanks

[NJ Devils Fan]

Heady, when all the dust settled in my tank from the Onyx sand, I put my gravel vac right into the sand and it sucked up the dust. The actual sand went back down. That is the best way to get the dust out. Now, just about four months since I set up everything, I am still getting a little bit of dust during my vacuuming. But, you don't notice anything after a few times.

[Heady]

Thanks for the help. Day 3 and the tank is still cloudy although much better than day 1 - I can actually see the fish. :)

I guess I'll try doing some partial water changes weekly until it clears up. Plus I'll add the 2213 and see if that helps.

[125gJoe]

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More nutrient/mineral content discussion may be upcoming...

[125gJoe]

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Ooops, I was so involved in finding the statement about Onyx Sand being "mineral rich"... from p. 118 of Dr. Foster Smith catalog - and completely forgot to mention the author is Greg Morin (President/CEO of SeaCem) .....

[gmorin]

I was contacted by 80gJoe concerning this ongoing thread and wanted to clarify some of the issues that have been raised. Flourite, Flourite Red and Onyx Sand do contain other minerals beyond just iron (see below). The mineral content is broad and sufficient enough that in some situations no or very minimal fertilization may be necessary (i.e. low light, low plant population density). However, there are certainly situations where substrate (any substrate) alone will not be sufficient and additional fertilization will be necessary (i.e. fast growth, densely populated or CO2 injected systems). So overall what RTR has been saying is correct, I just didn't want the impression to be left that our substrates were lacking in everything except iron.

Onyx sand Flourite Red Flourite
Ag 10.27 6.922 5.23
Al 822.5 15710 10210
As 51.91 254 169.3
Ba 4.45 104.3 123.9
Be 0.2907 0.9305 0.6249
Ca 197500 120.2 195.3
Cd 11.82 5.979 5.485
Co 3.632 7.757 5.748
Cr 10.14 21.95 13.03
Cu 4.295 19.45 17.36
Fe 2876 16190 18500
K 417 2417 2195
Mg 115400 2816 2281
Mn 43.01 46.84 64.79
Mo 6.419 12.37 9.372
Na 135.1 365 223.4
Ni 7.103 17.72 12.41
P 284.2 195.4 224.5
Pb 30.46 55.2 42.42
Sb 20.64 56.57 40.29
Se 103.2 79.42 64.66
Si 159.2 95.52 95.1
Sr 62.77 25.16 16.28
Ti 42.31 26.28 33.97
Tl 753.3 118.8 98.9
V 7.457 18.23 14.55
Zn 22.81 50.37 28.87

[nvision]

here's more analysis (http://home.infinet.net/teban/jamie.htm) on onyx plus TONS of other possible substrates you can use.

[plantbrain]

One method I have used to off set any KH/Gh effects has been using some ground peat added to the bottom layer of onyx.
Around a handful per sq ft or so, it's not exact:-)
But even with KH3/GH5 tap water, the KH/Gh are stable and have been since I set the tank up about 3 months ago.

I have a good deal of onyx in a 75 gallon.

I also recommend adding some mulm/detritus to the bottom layer(1 inch or so) from an existing tank. Vacuum the gravel good and let the mulm settle to the bottom of the bucket and decant off the clear water. Save this "mulm". Add this fresh to your tank when you need it and feed some into your filter to seed it as well.

The substrate is the one variable that's difficult to reproduce from the start and this adds precisely what the substrate needs.

The flourite and the onyx are also exceptional substrates for non CO2 planted tanks. These, unlike peat and soil based substrates, have only become nicer and more stable over time not needing to be "recharged" or redone.

You can have depths up to 12 inches if you want to slope the gravel or build mounds.

I think perhaps the three main points over the years I've use these two products are: heavy-easy to plant and keep the plants rooted: stability: and good color in a number of species that simply could not be met through water column nutrient dosing alone. I don't worried about or mess with the substrate nor worried about pulling any muck up or fret over a 1 inch slope in the front going up to 12 inches in the rear.

And Greg will answer your questions on the Forums(Where does he get the time?:-))

Now I know Greg as well but I started raving about this stuff long before I knew him. Even Amano used it when he came here. It was heavier than his powersand and did not have the peat preadded, but it was 75% less $ than powersand also.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[125gJoe]

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I'd like to thank Greg Morin for taking the time to respond about question(s) on their substrate products. I think there was an old TV commercial that stated, "It's in there.." ...and that could apply to SeaChem's substrates...there's lots of good 'plant stuff' in there! :)

[Matak]

Again Joe, you've outdone yourself. Thanks.
Thank you Mr. Morin for responding and it would be nice to see you as a regular contributor.

[Sumpin'fishy]

OK, we all agree that Seachem's substrates are awesome. I have some Flourite Red in my planted tank. I do have another question about a different substrate, though.

Has anyone had experience with Aragalive's Planted Aquarium Substrate? It's a dark, rich black color and comes prepackaged with "liquid amazon" which contains live bacteria in it. Anyone like or dislike anything about this product? I would like to try some, although I think I will still use Seachem's product line often, as well.