Potassium

[Aquafreak]

I add Seachem Equilibrium after each water change, should I bother at all with Flourish Potassium? I do not and cannot obtain a potassium test kit. Are there signs I should look for in the plants? How do I know if I need to add extra and how much, it's a 33 gal tank with 3 30watt flourescent tubes. The plants do not pearl at all, my co2 is at about 20ppm, I add Duple Plant 24 daily.

Thank you for your attention

[djlen]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Are you happy with your plant growth and tank in general? If so, why mess with it?
There are K test kits out there, but they are difficult to use and not really very necessary as it is difficult to over-dose on Potassium.
Len

[Aquafreak]

I guess I want some pearling action, don't know whats missing tho. But am happy with the plant growth so far, wondering if something is missing because I'm getting some green algae on the glass.

[djlen]

Ok, that's a different story. With 3watts/gal. it may not be broke, but it's on it's way.
Not sure what's in 'Duple Plant', but you need to read, in our archives, about balancing your tank by using ALL the nutrients the plants need. N,K,P, and Traces.
I suggest you go to the upper right of the page and click on "search". Type in nutrients and/or fertilization. Read everything that is written by Plantbrain(Tom Barr). You will find what he says becomes very repeditive because the answer to balancing your tank is very simple. And his recipe for growing plants and fighting algae work.
Your CO2 could be just a tad higher....your lighting is excellent. All you need are a few other items and you're good to go.
Len

[Aquafreak]

I have actually read quite a few articles that you've mentioned and also posts that was on this forum about balancing nutrients, I've checked most of my nutrient levels, and most seems to be in check except phosphate, and potassium, potassium I do not have a test for, but phosphate I have not been dosing that and the tests keeps coming up zero, deciding now whether I should buy flourish potassium and phosphate. For phosphate I would be able to handle, but potassium I'd be working in the dark without a test kit.

[plantbrain]

Few, if anyone uses a K+ test kit FWIW.
I used one a few years ago.

Not much use except for a ball park figure.

Do regular water changes and dose with K2SO4 for K. Or you can use the KCL based SeaChem solution.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[Aquafreak]

Plantbrain:
I use Seachem Equilibrium after each weekly water change, is that enough?

[djlen]

You don't need to test for K. It's very hard to over dose K.
My Hagen's PO4 test kit works fine for me. Keeps me in the area. And I do believe in regular testing for PO4 as well as nitrates which many of us dose regularly.

I use Equilibrium........is that enough?
Enough what?
Len

[Aquafreak]

Enough K?

[djlen]

If your water is deficient in mineral, use Equilibrium. If you want K, dose K2SO4 or KCl.
Flourish Potassium can be used, but it's more expensive to dose SeaChem products. For example, you can pick up KCl at the supermarket by buying NuSalt(salt substitute's aisle) dirt cheap.
Fleet Enema, at your pharmacy for phosphates. $1.50 will buy the average aquarist 4 - 6 months worth of PO4.
Len

[Aquafreak]

Great, thanks for the cheap alternatives, KCl i think should be ok, but Fleet Enema I'm not so sure, might check my pharmacy first, might only be available in USA as like all things. One more thing, my nitrAte is 0 all the time, should I try Flourish Nitrogen or is there a cheaper way to do it?

[djlen]

Tree stump remover is usually 100% Potassium Nitrate. If you can find it, pick up Spectracide Tree Stump Remover. I know it's ok cause it's what I use. One bottle will probably last you for a year(at least 6 mons.). I picked it up in the green house section of my local Lowe's.
Len
PS Before you ask, there is not nearly enough Potassium in it to use it for dosing K. Just use it for the KNO3.

[Aquafreak]

I found fleet enema in the chemist, but having a horrible time finding tree stump remover, the only other one I found is a solution and doesn't contain any KNO3, tried hardware stores, hydroponics and flower nurseries.

[Aquafreak]

I've gone through all possible resources in the retail industry and I have found a chemical company that sells pure potassium nitrate in a powder form. It's smallest size is a 25kg bag for AUS$52.91. I'm guessing this will last me umm 5 generations? hehe. So you reckon I should grab it? also will the dosage be the same as your stump remover if I do get it?

Thanks again for replys.

[djlen]

I wouldn't buy that much. There are places on line that will sell you a couple of pounds, but for the life of me I can't think of the one I've used in the past. I'll work on it for you.
Len

EDIT: Got it.....Go here for KNO3. www.litemanu.com
Click on Shop on Line, then Nutrients, then Chemicals. They'll send you a couple of pounds pretty cheap.

[Aquafreak]

Just checked with litemanu, it costs me AUS$88 to ship for a lb of potassium nitrate.

[djlen]

Too freakin' much money!!!!!!
Ok, try this, and if you can't find this in Australia I give up.
There is a product called Salt Petre. I just bought some in a pharmacy here the other day. It's 100% Potassium Nitrate. In fact it's the finest, purest KNO3 I've seen anywhere and what I'll use from now on.
Not all pharmacies may carry it, but keep looking because I'm sure somewhere in a city the size of Sydney someone must carry it. Try that chemist where you got the Fleet.
Good luck and let me know how you make out. This is becoming a real challenge.
Len

I don't remember if I mentioned it previously and I'm too lazy to look back at all the posts, but just because it's Potassium Nitrate you still need to dose K separately. The Potassium Nitrate is just for the NO3. It doesn't contain enough K. For the K you dose either KCl(potassium chloride) or K2SO4(potassium sulfate).

[Aquafreak]

Ok I'll give that a try tomorrow in my local chemist, now you know what its like to live here, not a bad place overall just too bloody much a hassle when your into aquariums, all this "unavailability" also applies to the whole hobby, fish, equipment you name it, I can't even get Flourish Nitrogen without waiting for a week, that's after ringing 6 LFSs.

I just found a new website www.eplants.com.au that seems to be of some interest regarding fertilisers and stuff, in the fertiliser section they have Potass sulphate and its in Australia, but no Potass Nitrate. Anyway I see they also have Sulphate of Iron and Chelated Iron, if I wanted to get one of those which one would I buy?

[djlen]

Chelated.
Try to find the Salt Petre locally. It's pure, it's cheap.
And re-read my last post. While you were writing this last one I was editing my previous one.
Len
I just looked at the site you were talking about. You can also buy the epsom salts at the pharmacy. I'm sure it'll be cheaper there than on line with shipping and all.

[Aquafreak]

One more thing, is there anything else in the pharmacy I could buy for Potassium Sulphate, calcium and iron? Thought I might ask before I head down there.

[Aquafreak]

Hehe I knew that yes, I just added a new post on the K.

[djlen]

Epsom salts(for Mg). All pharmacies here carry them.
Len

[Aquafreak]

Yep I saw Epsom salts in pharmacy, will get them tomorrow, could you also kindly direct me to a link where I can find dosage rates for all these when I do get them one day? I hope I'm not being a drag asking all these questions, first time for me in this fertilising regime. Do I still dose my Duplaplant 24 with them? or would I be better off dosing flourish trace.

Thanks again for replys

[djlen]

I'm not sure what the Dupla stuff has in it, but if you dose K, P, and N all you need is Flourish(not Flourish Trace....too watery), but Flourish, by SeaChem, some Iron and occasionally some Mg(epsom salts) and you're good to go. You may not even need the Mg if you have a decent supply of it in your tap water. BTW you'll also need to do weekly water changes. The plants will love it.
For dosages, once you're ready I'll give you the ballpark dosages based on your tank size and number of plants, and you can tinker from there.
Len

[Aquafreak]

It's beginning to make more sense and a whole lot easier than I thought it'd be, except for buying the darn things to begin with. Thanks much for your help, once I get KNO3 and Mg, I'll be needing your dosage.

Might as well tell you the details of the tank now, it's a 33gal,weekly 50-70% water change, 3 30watt lights, pH 6.8-6.9, KH4, a bunch of ambulia, 1 corymbosa compact, 1 sword plant, 2 tiger lotus and 2 anubias on wood. Since I added the fleet enema, been battling green dust algae on the front glass.

[plantbrain]

Once you get the other stuff and the CO2 up, KNO3, then add the KH2PO4/Fleet enema etc.

You'll see pearling if you do this.
If you need to add SC EQ and KNO3 regularly and you do the weekly water changes, then it is likely you can get most of the K from that alone.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[Aquafreak]

Was going to ask about the SC EQ too, thanks.

[Aquafreak]

Well just been back from pharmacy, they don't have Salt Petre, nor do they even have a listing for it, so cannot order it in, however she did find me some potass nitrate powder, which will take a few days to get in, and I got a bottle of flourish and some epsom salts.

You guys in US really have it easy in buying things don't you.

[djlen]

OK, glad to hear it's falling into place. Yes, we kind of take a lot of things for granted here.
Here's the dosing schedule:
Traces - 10mls 2x week
KNO3 - 1/4 tsp after water change(test at mid week to see if more is needed. Try to maintain 10ppm)
Fe(Iron) - 5mls per 20 gals. 2x week
K2SO4 - 1/4 tsp. per 20 gals. after water change. Or you can mix a stock solution and keep in the refrigerator. Mix 1tbsp. K2SO4 with tap water in a 300ml bottle. Shake WELL until dissolved and dose 10ml 2x week in a tank of 30 gal. and over and 1x week in a tank smaller than 30 gal.
KH2PO4(Fleet Enema) 3 or 4 drops after water change. Test at mid week and if under .5ppm dose again to reach 1.0ppm.
I dose one of the above dosages after my weekly 40% water change and if needed the other dose comes at mid week.
It's essential that you do a water change weekly to "re-set" the tank if you go over or under during the week.
This schedule has worked well for me. Hope it does the same for you.
Len

[FASTRAKR]

You can also try a farm store that sells Vet supplies. The one here couldn't find stump remover at first, but when I told him what I was actually looking for he told me he could get salt petre no problem and it was chemically the same stuff.

Hope that helps,
FASTRAKR

[carpguy]

Look around for salt substitutes at your local market. Some of them are bound to be potassium chloride, another DIY favorite.

Good dosing info can be foundhere (http://www.sfbaaps.com/reference/barr_02_01.shtml) and here (http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_dosage_calc.htm) (as ever, many thanks to C. Gadd and the Plantbrain for all the useful info).

[Aquafreak]

I found something called "No Salt" in the supermarket, but it also has Ammonium, so I doubt that'd work, is this the same stuff you guys use for KCl?

I did however find something which has Potassium chloride, potassium sulphate, but it's in a tablet form. It's basically a vitamin.

None of the supermarkets have heard of a product called "Nu Salt" which I see some of you guys use.

[Aquafreak]

Ok just checked the packing on the No Salt, it's active ingredients are Potassium Chloride, Ammonium Chloride, Magnesium Stearate and Tricalcium Phosphate.

Is this safe to use?

[djlen]

No Salt is ok to use.
Len

[Aquafreak]

Great thanks Len, Tom Barr mentioned earlier in this thread that with Seachem Equalibrium and KNO3 that I should get enough K, so should I leave it or what, cos there's no way to measure.

[djlen]

I would NEVER argue with what Tom says. He's the resident guru around here. I was unsure as to how much K was in Equilibrium so I didn't respond to that. However, if I was using it I would go with the store bought stuff when you finish the Equilibrium up. My opinion is that it's always cheaper to buy generic.
I use Flourish and Flourish Iron simply because I feel that they are the best around for traces and Iron. But trust me, if I found something as complete that was less money......I'm there.
Len

[TomFromStLouis]

two points:

if Aquafreak is not getting pearling and his nitrates read zero, then isn't nitrate his limiting factor? So dosing the KNO3 should give some pearling, right? btw, what knid of plants are we talking about Aquafreak?

What size tank is that you are dosing Len?

[famman]

djlen,

If no salt is safe to use, then what should i use for my K? ;)

And Who is on first base?

good luck

[djlen]

Tom, IMO pearling is not the end all. I get steady pearling only in my 3watts/gal tanks. In the lower watt tanks I get it only occasionally. I used to go nuts wondering why the d*#n things weren't pearling. Now I just watch the growth and their performance to know that they are happy. At water change time everything pearls.......great to see, but not normally the case in most tanks, most of the time.
I have 4 tanks: a 10, a 40, and 2 - 55's. Since I started dosing on the schedule I sent to Aquafreak I have had very, very little algae(minor algae buildup on older anubia leaves). At one time my tanks were a mess. I thank Tom Barr(most of the regulars are probably sick of reading this) for turning me on to the right way to manage an aquarium.
Len

[Aquafreak]

You can see the list of plants in an early post in this thread Tom.