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View Full Version : Please...someone help a newb..there is a question here



MikeInOrlando
03-22-2007, 4:44 AM
First of all, I've been misguided by fish stores...and I'm not even talking about PetSmart. So, let me tell you where I am and what's going on now.

I have a 75 gallon tank that I originally "cycled" for a week with four blue gouramies. Then, I went and talked to the "experts" at an LFS and asked them what I could add next. Get this one. They told me I could get two elephant noses, two ghost knifes and then they sold me two plecos and two african clawed frogs. So, I bought them and then researched them when I got them home. In about 15 minutes of research, I learned that I had a VERY BAD SETUP. Ghost Knifes could get too big for my tank as one, plus they don't get along well together. AND they shouldn't be kept with elephant noses.....AND I didnt' need plecos because a new tank didn't have algae. Plus, the two plecos would get HUGE. Oh, yeah...and then the small fact that they sold me CLAWED frogs and not DWARFS....which meant that most of my fish could be lunch in a few months.

So, in keeping with my idea that this is not just a hobby, but a hobby with responsibility, I called the LFS and they agreed to take the two plecos, the frogs, one knife and one elephant nose back.

So...as of now, I still have one knife, one elephant, the four original gouramies and four dwarfs. I realize that at this point in the game, my tank is still overstocked because I'm not yet cycled...and due to more misguidance from that store, I am now starting my cycle period over again because I freaked out at the high ammonia levels and threw in a bunch of ammo lock in my tank. At the behest of the LFS, by the way.

So, today, after learning that Ammo Lock is a bad thing at this stage in my game, I was faced with the delima of whether I would have to drain the tank completely and just start over, which meant finding a temp home for all those little creatures and having to go through the trouble of trying to catch them....instead I decided to do three consecutive 50 percent water changes. Ouch. I condition the water with Prime, which I hear is great, and lo and behold, I have much lower ammonia readings. (anywhere from zero ppm to .50, depending on how you interpret the shade of yellow on the card) Now, I do understand that if my tank is properly cycling, I should expect a spike in ammonia, so I won't freak out next time.

Now, here's the question, and this is where I get confused. I now know to test for ammonia, then nitrites and then finally nitrates. I have a great bio wheel filter which I'm proud to say in the few weeks I've had this tank, I haven't cleaned...at least I've done something right. But there is a conflict among the experts.

Now that I've pretty much started over again, do I do water changes every other day or let the tank just stand for a week or two? My thinking is that I should do 20-25 percent water changes every couple of days, based on what I feel to be simple science. If the ammonia isn't taken out of the tank while the bio filter is being established, where does it go? Seems to me that I have to act as the bio filter until it actually shows up. I'm hoping that I still have a little on my filter and my rocks and decor to help me along, but I suppose the daily readings will tell me this.

So....water changes every couple days or just let it sit? HELP?

Also, I have told you all everything I have done to this point so that if there is something I can do better, please tell me how to fix it. I still wonder if I have a big enough tank for even one Ghost Knife.

Rbishop
03-22-2007, 5:15 AM
Welcome to AC!

I would do 30 % water changes whenever you see ammonia or nitrites at .25

I'll move this thread to the FW newbie section for you.

MikeInOrlando
03-22-2007, 5:37 AM
Welcome to AC!

I would do 30 % water changes whenever you see ammonia or nitrites at .25

I'll move this thread to the FW newbie section for you.
Hi...and thanks for moving me.

I did just do a retest (6 or so hours after the original "setup") and the ammonia levels are already on the rise. Nitrites are still at zero, so I guess you recommend that water change tomorrow already?

TKOS
03-22-2007, 5:51 AM
Yes, more water changes.

Ammolock isn't the worst thing but a waste of money since it won't help with nitrites and you will have to chnage the water for that anyway.

Letting it sit won't help. There are those that feel a cyclign tank should be left alone since removing the extra ammonia or nitrite will slw down bacterial growth as a food source is removed. Of course the bacteria can only grow so fast and any readable ammonia or nitrite levels on test kits means that your current bacteria has already consummed its max at that point. Our test kits aren't that accurate so even a zero reading probably means there is a little spare ammonia for food.

No since allowing a major excess of waste to accumulate in the meantime.

MikeInOrlando
03-22-2007, 5:58 AM
"No since allowing a major excess of waste to accumulate in the meantime."

This reminds me of something I was thinking about earlier today. Even after the ammo lock incident, I couldn't get the ammonia levels down. They were very high for a couple of weeks. I started doing 15 percent water changes at that time but couldn't catch a break. Now, every time I do water changes, until today, I've always done it as a gravel vacuum. Was I sucking up my biofilter when I was doing that?

curviceps
03-22-2007, 6:00 AM
Of all the cycle products out there, I have only heard good things about Bio-Spira. Perhaps you could try this.

Rbishop
03-22-2007, 6:03 AM
I don't feel the gravel vac'ing will disturb the bacteria. It is attaching to any and all surfaces where there is suffuceint oxygen and food.

Have you ever taken a ammonia/nitrite/nitrate reading on your tap water? You may have a base level of them in it.

As your colony establishes, you will see the time between water changes increase. When you keep getting zeros on ammonia and nitrites, with increasing nitrates, you will be there and can set up routine changes.

MikeInOrlando
03-22-2007, 6:07 AM
Yes. A friend of mine (who actually helped me discover my initial mistakes and referred me to this site) told me to do that and I came up with a zero reading for ammonia. Never did test it for nitrites, but since I have a zero reading in the tank, I assume my tap water is at a zero level, too?

MikeInOrlando
03-22-2007, 6:08 AM
"Of all the cycle products out there, I have only heard good things about Bio-Spira. Perhaps you could try this."

Do tell? I'm actually afraid to use any kind of "shortcut" cycling product at this point, but I'm all ears anyway.

TKOS
03-22-2007, 8:46 AM
Since Bio-Spira is the only bacteria source that needs to be kept cold to stay alive, it does seem to work. It also adds the correct bacteria. Other products seem to at best add the wrong bacteria that are a temp fix.

Other than biospira you could easily speed things up by getting some filter media from an established tank and adding it to your filter.

Oh and yes, gravel vacuuming is a good thing. Getting any excess waste out of the tank is good at this point.

DebbyS
03-22-2007, 10:52 AM
Have you considered adding plants? Even simple, inexpensive ones (like elodia/anarchis) can be soothing to the eye as they gulp up amonia and other unwanted chemicals.

jessicar613
03-22-2007, 12:18 PM
Since you're looking at doing a lot of water changes, do you have a Python? You may have seen them at the lfs; they're a siphon w/ a long hose that attaches to your faucet. You won't believe how much time you'll save.

TKOS
03-22-2007, 12:23 PM
Good point. A python will save you a lot of work on a larger tank. Also look to Prime water conditioner. I believe it is the cheapest per dose, and is supposed to help a little with ammonia and nitrite toxicity (it does some sort of binding thing).

MikeInOrlando
03-22-2007, 7:39 PM
Good point. A python will save you a lot of work on a larger tank. Also look to Prime water conditioner. I believe it is the cheapest per dose, and is supposed to help a little with ammonia and nitrite toxicity (it does some sort of binding thing).

Yeah I have the python thingy but it doesn't attach to my water faucet. Draining the tank is still easy, but I have to bucket fill. I am using Prime. I've heard great things about it.Now, these water changes....at what point do I do them from here and what percentage?

platytetrafan
04-08-2007, 3:07 PM
Test water daily for ammonia,nitrites and nitrates get the API master kit it tests for everything also check your ph I like the drops much better then the strips. DO NOT clean the biowheel you should never clean it as this contains the bacterial media you need to keep the tank balanced discoloration on the biowheel is a good thing. The only time you should touch it is if it gets damaged for some reason. If you have a sponge filter I would leave it until the tank is cycled and then change it as directed the carbon is most important. Water changes of 25-30% if you see levels of ammonia 0.25% or nitrite levels. Vaccuming the gravel is a good thing gets excess food out of the tank. I used CYCLE and my tank pretty much cycled in 5 weeks. Once your tank is cycled add fish slowly like 2 or 3 weekly until stocked and do research on fish compatibility etc before you go to the LFS to buy the fish you will then have the knowledge to make the correct choices. Good luck!