My 1st aquarium (60l) long thread

[theofilos]

Hello everyone,
I am theofilos from Greece. A country very well MISinformed in aquariums. They do not even cycle tanks here. And you rarely find what you want so I woul like some help cause there is limited help here. I have been coming to these forums for about a month but now I registered cause it is the first time I wanted to post. I just bought a juwel aquarium 60l. It is complete with air pumps, filters, lighting and thermostat. I will buy in less than a month a 400l monster ( at least for me:P). The 60 l will probably go in my bathroom ( it is next to my bed and does not have direct sunlight ). Here are the things I bought with the aquarium:
Test kits for PH,Nitrite,Nitrate,Ammonia. These are from tetra which is a global company and I believe I can trust them. Unfortunately they did not have KH and GH test kits. Do I need them? What is their use?
Except for the test kits I also bought from Tetra Blackwater Extract ( Says it improves water quality) and Bactozym (speeds up filter development and decomposes waste).
I also bought a Stress coat which has dual uses : to replace the protective slime on fish and also to remove chlorine and neutralize chloramine also detoxifies heavy metals.
For gravel I bought some slim pebbles ( for aquarium use).
I am expecting in 2 days the aquarium stand, the background rocky surface as also the black silicone glue (harmless to fish).
After I glue the background I will have to setup the aquarium. This is where I need your help. My thoughts on the tank is to make an amazon community tank with plants (java fern and moss).
So:
1.)The gravel to support soil is I guess different from the pebbles. Tomorrow he will tell me if we can order special gravel for plants.
The guy at the LFS told me that I can put pebbles on bottom and after the gravel on top of it. Does this sound logical? Are the pebbles (not coloured) going to be needed since I will have plants?
2.) To cycle he said I could use 2 goldfish (and return them later). Well I have seen on forums that it is better to cycle fish less but I did not see at the LFS selling ammonia or maybe one of the stuff I bought can help? Sorry if something I say sounds funny but I am a n00b hehe.
3.) I will add first the gravel then what should follow fish or plants? And I know I have to put in small quantites each time. What do you suggest?
4.) As for fish it is not urgent but I would like to tell you what I am thinking of. Some neons guppies mollies maybe a killifish or a gurami ( I have not checked their PH's yet and the wanted temp but it is what I have in mind) I would 1 algea eater in the from of a pleco but not a pleco since they get huge maybe a bristlenose? (if i can find one here) Also some cory's or some loaches. That's for the start later on I can happily meet them with an arowana a red tail catfish a red terror a baracuda and some eels. LOL just joking.
Sorry for this HUGE post but I need to do things right and as you can see I want to make things work cause I know patience is gold (or silence?) I know some people wouldn't wait and start adding things in till they die but I want to make something that will last and keep me company in the hours I spent on the bathroom instead of reading some magazines :):):). Thanks in advance for all answers.

[OrionGirl]

Welcome aboard! I am moving this over the Fw Newbies, since you'll get help inline with your level of experience there.

To start answering questions: KH and GH tests water hardness, or the level of dissolved minerals like carbon and calcium. This in turn impacts pH, and how well your tank will stay at a specific pH. They are important to know, and you can contact your water supply utility--they should be able to help out.

The additives that you purchased may not be needed. The Blackwater Extract helps certain fish, but not all fish will want the water conditions produced. The other 2 products won't make a difference in the cycling, and may have some unintended consequences, like promoting algae growth.
If you can find Amquel or Prime, these products will treat your water for chlorine/chloramine without adding the other junk.

1) For the plants you want, driftwood and pebbles will be fine for them. If you decide you want swords, a different substrate such a laterite would be better, but any small gravel will work.

2) Ammonia won't be sold at the LFS. Check a pharmacy, or a store that has a wide selection of cleaning supplies--ammonia is used for cleaning more often than for feeding aquatic bacteria.

3) Gravel, water, cycle, water change, fish, plants. Some people add plants during the cycle, but this can cause problems with algaes.

4) Guppies and mollies would be okay together, but not with neons. Check out species profiles here and leanr more about each fish, then pick a centerpiece fish to build around.

[theofilos]

That was fast. :)
Well I go on and try to find by phone the products you recommended. About the cycling I have some questions though: You reccomend cycling without fish ? (not even some goldfish which will be returned? If you cycle fishless you add ammonia for the bacteria to grow?

[superjohnny]

I think you need to work on this instead of an aquarium...


...I want to make something that will last and keep me company in the hours I spent on the bathroom instead of reading some magazines...


Sounds like you have bigger fish to fry (so to speak :D)

fiber dude... fiber.

[theofilos]

LOl nope it is just that the bathroom is the only place with no direct sunlight. But it connected to the room just half a metre from my bed and less than half a meter to the water hose :) Plus I will be not needing magazines any more when I will be going to the toillete ;)

[theofilos]

OK i ordered gravel for plants some plants anubias java fern etc. also a GH KH tester chlorine remover and bacteria to start the cycling. Does this sound good? Also I made my mind for some neon some corys and a small sized plecoid.

[OrionGirl]

Yes, adding ammonia is what I meant. While the goldfish can be used, there are several reasons to avoid doing so. 1) goldfish are not tropical fish--they want water around 18-20C, while the fish you want to have prefer 25-26C-- a big difference! 2) the goldfish will be injured by the cycling process. The ammonia and nitrites will burn their gills, shortening their lives if not outright killing them (which complicates returns!) 3) The goldfish most commonly used for cycling are feeders, and tend to be infested with parasites and diseases--who wants that in a brand new tank?

The bacteria starter--what brand? Many of them are worthless, and won't help the tank at all.

[theofilos]

Well when I receive the items I will post names ( in 3-4 days probably cause I have to glue the rocky surface background first...) I will try out and if tests fail then I will go for the ammonia method. I don't have problem waiting a bit more and anyway maybe it works (maybe .... :P)

[punch]

I noticed that you mentioned buying gravel for plants, Anuibis and java ferm. Both these plants perfer being attached to a pc. of wood or a large rock and do not like having their rihizone in the gravel. You may want to get a nice pc. of driftwood to attach them to.

[theofilos]

Yes I forgot to mention I will buy some drift wood :)

[thom336]

One thing which has not been mentioned so far is that aquariums do not fair well in bathrooms due to humidity levels. I would rather have the tank in full sunlight and decrease the amount of artificial lighting (dependent on what your current planned level of lighting is), and have a combination of the both. You may experiance some algae problems with this method, and a slight increase in temperature, but it would be better than having it in the bathroom with the humidity. Just noticed you are considering bristlenoses - these will certainly decrease the algae problems - and the fish should do fine in a slightly higher temp, so I dont see a problem there. I would buy a group of bristlenoses rather than a single one (if you can get hold of them) as they are in essence a shoaling fish. I would also avoid the killifish, as they are not a community favourite.

Oh, and silence is golden - patience is a virtue. lol.

Hope this helps, and best of luck,
Thom.

[theofilos]

Thanks for your help. My bathroom is right next to my window it is less than half a meter from my bed and a meter from the window plus the door is always open so it has the same temperature with the room plus no direct sunlight plus I will put a 180 l in my room ehehhe :P:P:P:P As for the bristlenose I have not decided yet I just know that bristlenose plecos don't get big which means I am looking for the best algae eater with the smallest size have a suggestion? ;) oh and hardy too (oh and also have a fashion model deliver it to my house too ok? LOL)

[thom336]

I would still reckon there would be humidity problems in the bathroom. And Bristlenoses are the best suggestion I can think of for your tank, being intended as amazonian. Also, worth noting, guppies, mollies, killifish and gouramis are not, to my knowledge, amazonian fish. So it would really be pushing it to call it an amazonian community.

Oh, and speaking freely, your humour is beginning to sound a little too sarcastic.

Thom.

[theofilos]

Well when I will take pics you will see the place and I believe you will be satisfied. Well I was just telling some fish from my mind to add variaton to the aquarium (as much as a 10g can have...). As for the jokes there is no sarcasm in it,it is just I am a funny guy that's all ;) Well fish setup in my mind so far:
some neons some rummynose and maybe another tetra species
some bronze cory's maybe?
a plecoid
and last and final can a kuhli loach fit in this tank ? I do not know the compatibily but I know they are peaceful. What do you think of these?

[OrionGirl]

Kuhli's like to be a in groups--a single fish will spend all it's time hiding, while a group will cavort and play. Same for cories. I would focus on one or the other for your bottom feeders.

I would pick a favorite tetra, and have a just them. With schooling fish, bigger groups are better than 2-3 of separate species. Mixed groups of tetras tend to just hang out, never really schooling.

:D

[theofilos]

Oh! So we have rummynose and kuhli if I find them else I get bronze cory and a solo plecoid (small sized when adult). Does this sound good? We are talking with lots of plants and a driftwood. The crucial parts what quantities you suggest?
For the rummynoses and for the bottom dwellers either cory's or kuhli?