Altum Angel ?'s

[ecal468]

I have to Altum Angels. They are a wild strain, and do not seem to be coloring up very well. While the black stripes are distinguishable, more often than not they are a very light grey. All the pictures I have seen online, they have been dark black stripes. I feed them Omega One Super Color Flakes. I also sink a few shrimp pellets and spirulina wafers, but I never see them eat them. The temp is at 82 right now, and the Ph is 7.2.
I have found frozen blood worms at a LFS, do you think that would help in coloring them up? Also, do you defrost them? How does that exactly work?
Thanks!

[Mr.Firemouth]

Altums are sensitive fish. If these are wild caught and not tank raised I would recommend garlic at a minimum and possibly a treatment for intestinal worms. It is very possible that they are infected.

These fish are highly acceptable to high nitrates so keep up on water changes.

Also, if the tank is planted with dark backgrounds and substrates they will color up more once they settle in.

Frozen cubes of bloodworms should help with feeding. Also use a flake with spirulina in it. That will help also.

[ecal468]

That sounds like a plan. I just got a package of frozen bloodworm cubes. Will try it out tonight and see how it goes. Thanks.

[ecal468]

So i cut the frozen blood worm cubes into 1/4's and put two of the 1/4 chunks in the tank. What did they do? Fall behind the plants in the back. Well I guess the shrimp will get them. I learned my lesson, let them melt in the water some and then let go so they fall where they are accessible to the fish! I don't know id this is possible or not, but one of my Rams ate a few bites of them and his color have been ULTRA bright for the past 20 minutes. I have never seen them so distinguished for so long.

[CagIII]

Its unhealthy to feed fish frozen food, you should put it in a cup of tank water until it totally melts then just pour it in the tank. It will help it not to sink as well.

[Star_Rider]

Altums are the more difficult angels to raise..almost all of them are wild caught as breeding in captivity is extremely difficult.
as mentioned ..they are especially sensitive to water parameters..generally they prefer a pH that is slightly acidic(tanic)

how long have you had them?

I'm not one for messing with water chemistry..but in the case of altums it may be a possibility. your pH of 7.2 is pretty neutral so you should be okay.
what is your water change schedule? do you use aged water?

with these I would suggest multiple water changes weekly
http://www.angelsplus.com/images/altum1.jpg

http://www.angelsplus.com/images/altum3.jpg

first pic is a juvenile..most likely why you see the lighter coloring

the second is an adult

[Squawkbert]

Coloring is highly variable on my P.scalare from day to day, even from hour to hour - and he's not stressed. If coloration is the only issue, you may be OK...

[Star_Rider]

yes they will change colors thru the day..near dark they get darker..part of it may be due to the way they seek food..they are considered ambush predators.

[ecal468]

I change the water once a week, about 1/3 of it. I did notice that when there is little/no light they do tend to darken quite a bit. I had to seperate the two of them yesterday b/c the dominant one was unrelentingly harassing the other one. Luckily one of my neighbors has a HUGE tank with some angels and he is interested in taking this one since he has none of this kind yet. I'll keep you guys updated with the status of my other one though. He is much more active now that dominate one is gone. Thanks for all the help!

[WeeNe858]

how long have you had the altums?... i can say it might take a month or two before they eat.. keep the light low and feed the other fish as normal.. if the altums get hungry they should come up and eat with the fishes

[ecal468]

I have them a little more than a month now. The angels come up to eat the flakes, and when I feed them blood worms, they eat those too.

[ecal468]

I think we have a problem..... Today I woke up and turned the light one and found one of the angels had stringy feces! On top of that he turned completely sideways, but then righted himself. At feeding he stayed in the same spot, and he seems to be "hyperventilating". What can this be? Swimbladder and and an infection?

[Star_Rider]

could very well be an internal infection that may have caused issues with swim bladder.
with swim bladders it is difficult to tell..

could also have been in a fight and gotten damaged.

can you isolate the injured/sick fish?

[Beasts]

My experience with altums; Mine are the Colombian, as opposed to the Peruvian, altums. The 4 of them are in a 410 gallon, heavily planted aquarium. I am currently feeding Omega One flake foods as well as frozen brine shrimp and blood worms. Previously I was feeding TetraMin. They eat each and every one of these foods enthusiastically. I have had my altums for about 8 months. They have at least tripled in size. Intraspecific aggression is lessened by having numbers greater than 2 or 3. I intend to add 5 more when I can find more. The pH in this aquarium has dropped from 7.8 to 6.9 in the time that the altums have been living in it with no noticeable change in their health - they have always been healthy. The colors of altums are beautiful but more subtle than many of the flashier fish. Their black is pretty intense most of the time but it does change with their mood.
The aquarium is set up with a continuous water change which, I'm guessing, changes about 125 gallons per week. I thaw my frozen foods using warm tap water (no chlorine) so that all inhabitants have a chance to get some. When I pour it in I spread it around to different areas of the tank. There are more than 80 other fish in this aquarium. All of them are well fed, healthy and appear to be behaving naturally - they chase and hassle each other but none of them hang in a corner or have frayed fins or missing scales.
My water is slightly hard. Altums would prefer soft water but mine don't seem to be suffering with a GH of about 13. The temperature in the aquarium is 78 degrees Fahrenheit.
I was not aware that altums had been bred in captivity. I am looking for a good source of these fish.
Hope this helps.
Beasts

[Beasts]

Are your rams hassling the altums? Do you have decorations (plants, rocks, driftwood) to help establish territories?
Beasts

[Star_Rider]

Beasts, would love to see pics of your altums.

you are correct..Altums are very dificult to breedin captivity..probably on of the toughest..they seem to be very sensitive to water conditions.

for awhile there were bad batches of Altums..they were dying at dramatic rates..but lately they seem to have gotten better stock.

I know one guy who has bred successfully Altums in captivity and that was in laboratory conditions and this guy lived in SA when he accomplished this feat.

I have not yet found Altums but have found Peruvian Scalare..lucky for me the guy who brought these in was under the assumption he has Altums , when he got them he discovered they were Scalare..had I had the room I would have taken all he had.

[ecal468]

After I had separated the more aggressive altum from the tank, the one that I left in was doing fine. No other fish are bothering him at all. He stays mostly in the middle/top where the Rams are more bottom/middle. If you want to see a pic, in the Cichlids section I have a post called "German Blue Rams". It has pics of my tank. I gotta get running to school, but I just go out of work and he seems to have regained some color. I don't have a quarantine tank though. If it is absolutely necessary, I can buy one I guess. He has been fine for a month now.

[ecal468]

Here is the tank. Any arrangement suggestions appreciated....

[Beasts]

ecal468,
That quarantine tank is a real good idea. I have 4 aquariums whose primary function is to provide quarantine and experimentation space for my 410.

star rider,
Please keep up the photo requests. Eventually I will get permission to purchase the digital camera I want.

[Beasts]

Here is the tank. Any arrangement suggestions appreciated....

So, apparently the altum has recovered from the problem he had this morning? Very nice. As far as the fish are concerned, think of the decorations as points defining lines which the fish can use to define territories. Kind of like surveyors pins in the corners of lots. "Don't cross the line defined by the rock and the Vallisneria plant or I'll kick your butt!!"
Beasts

[born2lovefish]

I would suggest some live amazon sword plants and other live plants to make them feel at home. Just a thought...

[Beasts]

I would suggest some live amazon sword plants and other live plants to make them feel at home. Just a thought...

Another whole new can of worms for this poor guy!! Please note that he's a newbie (I think?). I too love live plants but, oh boy, what a challenge to add. (Please note the smiley above.)
Beasts

[ecal468]

Yes, as assumed, I am new to this kind of stuff. This morning I had a problem with the angel, but he seemed better when I saw him this evening. I'll let you guys/girls know tomorrow morning how he is when the light comes back on. I do plan on inserting a few more territorial distinguishing pieces. Here is a link to what I was thinking: http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105276
-Also live plants would be really nice! But I think once I get a handle on just keeping fish alive and happy I might work my way into the plants. One thing at a time for me though. Thanks for the help! I'll keep updating.