View Full Version : nitrate toxicity
at what point would nitrates become toxic if the rise was very gradual?
Sumpin'fishy
05-08-2003, 9:40 PM
You have asked a question that doesn't have an exact answer. It's like asking when someone will get cancer from smoking cigarettes. It depends on many factors, but even slightly detectable amounts of nitrates are toxic. Nitrates are bad for fish, plain and simple. The fact that fish are hardy enough to withstand certain amounts quite easily is an entirely different issue. (Humans seem to put up with "normal" city polution pretty well too!)
I generally keep my nitrates below 20ppm in all my tanks. Even my fish only tanks only have about 10 to 15ppm nitrate before I change water (2 weeks on my 55 gal). I would certainly say that anything above 50ppm is not good for any long term. Remember that if you place a fish that has been in crystal clear, undetectable nitrate water for a long time, then gets thrown in water with same parameters but 20ppm nitrate.....it's going to be more stressed than one slowly acclimated to 50ppm nitrate.
Hope this helps you out.
but what would a good ballpark estimate be. over 200ppm?
ChilDawg
05-08-2003, 9:53 PM
What sort of fish are we talking??? Not that I advocate keeping the nitrates at a certain level, but some fish are much more susceptible to nitrates than others.
Wow: 200 ppm is lethal to almost every fish!!!
JamisonBWolsh
05-08-2003, 10:22 PM
200ppm is not lethal...Search the threads on this board for nitrates, many of your questions will be answered!
My 60 gallon Tank is over stocked and has about 100ppm I am guessing. My other 2 tanks are well below that at 20 ppm. I personally would not worry about anything less then 100ppm. There are a few fish "sensitive" to nitrates, but many wont have a problem. As for long term problems...Not sure yet. My fish are 2 years old and never had any diseases or Ich (which are caused by poor water quality). They seem to be in perfect health, with a few of them even showing breeding behaviors. I really would not worry to much about it.
Its better to have 0ppm, but dont shoot yourself if it is 100ppm. I know people that have had it at 200ppm and there fish were fine and they had them for years. Poeple worry too much about the chemicals. Do a water change once a week and dont over-feed and you will be fine.
my tanks stay below 20. im just trying to find out for my own knowledge.
ChilDawg
05-08-2003, 10:37 PM
<----(egg on face; was looking in shellie books and nothing else for Nitrate levels)
Good catch, Jamison.
JohnMemorialHS
05-08-2003, 11:20 PM
high nitrate also contribute to breeding problems, slowed metabolism, lower immune ability, AND also, algae growth in tanks hehehe :D
Short-term versus long-term matters, as does aclimitization rate, and the particular species. There is no broad brush answer, but generally anything over 40ppm nitrate is undesirable as sensitive fish will show responses by that level.
I personally will not keep any tank above 20ppm and most of my tanks are about 10 or below
Trying living where the tap water is 5-10ppm nitrates but I keep it below 20ppm. My plants like it though and dosing potassium nitrate is one thing I don't have to worry about.
Alex
Originally posted by Alex
Trying living where the tap water is 5-10ppm nitrates but I keep it below 20ppm. My plants like it though and dosing potassium nitrate is one thing I don't have to worry about.
Alex
i have 10ppm right out of the tap here so i have to do 25% water changes every other day to keep my tanks below 20.
Kirin Fang
05-09-2003, 7:13 PM
Nitrates are usually harmless under 50 - 100 ppm, particualarly if they accumulate gradually
Sure they are - bred many Rams, Apistos, Discus, lampeyes, Tetras, Rasboras, or even shrimp lately? Got any six year old Neons or Cardinals? Fifteen-plus year old Africans? Yeah, harmless, sure.
Sumpin'fishy
05-09-2003, 9:18 PM
A bunch of Vietnam vets came home and "looked great" for decades before developing sickness from "agent orange", too! Just because we don't see our fish pale and visibly wasting doesn't mean they aren't slowly being worn down by toxic waste. There are many fish in the rivers around here too, and I know what kind of garbage gets put into the water.......very polluted waters to say the least!
Of coarse just because someone keeps under 5 ppm nitrate in their tank doesn't mean the fish doesn't live in polution of some sort. The question was "at what level does nitrate become toxic?"......so here is the answer: .1ppm !!!
The solution is to keep your tank in the cleanest condition you can. Watch your fish, change water frequently, quarantine, etc. You can not stop pollution from accumulating in a glass box.....it is going to happen. Minimalize it as much as possible, but don't turn what can be fun into a demanding choir that is impossible to keep up with. Just remember that living and surviving are two different things!
Kirin Fang
05-10-2003, 1:13 AM
Originally posted by RTR
Sure they are - bred many Rams, Apistos, Discus, lampeyes, Tetras, Rasboras, or even shrimp lately? Got any six year old Neons or Cardinals? Fifteen-plus year old Africans? Yeah, harmless, sure.
I never told him to keep it at 50 - 100 ppm, I just told him what he wanted to know: nitrates usually won't kill fish until after that range (of course it depends on the species). I never let my nitates get that high and i never recommend anyone to.
Quote:
"Nitrates are usually harmless under 50 - 100 ppm..."
And quote:
"I never told him to keep it at 50 - 100 ppm..."
Self explanatory, self-contradictory, and very poor advice IMHO & IME.
When we post on these boards, we need to think of what will happen if the questioner actually follows the advice given. The first statement certainly implies that 50-100ppm nitrate is acceptable.