View Full Version : Almost Discouraged Aquarist
bizzy928
05-08-2003, 8:53 PM
New 10 Gallon Fresh Water
Nitrate 0
pH 7.9-8
Ammonia 0
Hardness 10
1 Plant which was the bringer of snails
4 Natural pieces of rock
5 Neon Tetras Dead in a period of two weeks.
When I first put them into the tank, four neons would school together and one would always be left behind. I knew he was sick but didn't know with what. He died and then the next day, one started to show symptoms of gasping for air and buldging eyes. Two days later he died. That left me with three. I noticed they had little "lice" or what looked like grains of salt on them. So last night I raised the temp to 80 and added some more salt. This morning I woke up to two dead fish and one dying. Tonight another one died.
I have two theories on why they died.
1) I had four pieces of natural rock collected from my local beach. They are mostly slate. I soaked them and cleaned them well but i'm sure I didn't chip away all of the "contaminants." However I did goto the lfs to get my water tested and I asked if the rocks were releasing some types of minerals the tests would reveal it. (Ammonia, pH, Hardness, Nitrate) Is that true?
2) The plant I got at the lfs was the bringer of snails. I also think it brought a disease. Maybe ick? I don't see how else my fish could have contracted the parasites. As of now, all my fish are dead, but the snails are thriving! The plant has little strands of "dandruff" on it. The rocks have the same. Could that be ICK thriving on my Aquarium plants and rock?
Right now I don't know what to do. I really don't want to tear down the tank and start all over. Will ICK survive with the plant and snails? Or if I leave my tank to recycle for a month or so, will everything go away?
The main symptons my neons showed before they died were buldging eyese, gasping with the gills and swimming on a 45 degree angle.
Aren't neon tetras considered to be hardy?
Thank you in advance.
Michael
neons are very hardy. your ph was a little high though, and what you described on the fish (grains of salt) could have been ick. did you do water changes frequently while cycling the tank? how long has the tank been set up?
bizzy928
05-08-2003, 9:14 PM
The water was cycling for about one month. I didn't add anything other than the 3 filter cartridges (Foam, Ammonia, Carbon) and plant for the cycle. I got my water tested and the lfs guy told me the water was okay.
The tank was setup for about 1 1/2 months
well that rules out the cycling problem, as long as you did your water changes. all i can say is dont get discouraged, it happens to everyone. :(
kveeti
05-08-2003, 9:36 PM
OK, correct me if I have my facts wrong but…. you just added your fish about a week ago, right? Before that your tank was set up and running empty (except for the snail). I am getting this from your previous thread:
http://64.191.28.50/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10135
During that month & a half, if all you added were the filter inserts and a plant, and you did not add an ammonia source daily, you were simply aging your water – it was not cycling.
Besides your ich problem, sounds like your fish could have died of either ammonia or nitrIte poisoning (the gasping). In that previous thread you stated you were going to get your water tested before adding fish. Are the posted stats of your water from before or after you put in your fish? If before, of course your water tested fine, because it was merely testing aged tap water. If after, I notice there is no nitrIte reading which would be more beneficial to know than nitrAte at this point.
bizzy928
05-08-2003, 10:02 PM
Before I got the fish I had the water tested and the lfs said the water was fine. I didn't take any readings. The readings in my first post in this thread were the ones I took yesterday. (Three fish still alive but dying)
carpguy
05-08-2003, 11:27 PM
Please read this helpful and informative faq (http://faq.thekrib.com/begin.html). Before you added fish the water may have been fine. After you added fish the tank began cycling which can be a very dangerous time for the fish. If you didn't have some sort of ammonia source the tank wasn't cycling.
Fishless cycling is an option where household ammonia is used as the ammonia source. Fishy cycling is the option where fish are used, and they often don't survive. Your water is also quite hard for neons, but more importantly ammonia is more toxic at higher pHs so the likelihood of fish dying during the cycle is greatly increased.
If you get at least Ammonia and NitrIte test kits you can test your water during the cycle. Whenever these two toxins (produced by the fish) start to get too high waterchanges can be used to dilute down to safer levels. Underfeeding can also be helpful at this time (less food = less toxic waste).
Good luck to you and your fish. Its a hard lesson, try not to be too discouraged (but do read the faq, it should clear a few things up for you).
wetmanNY
05-08-2003, 11:34 PM
Before you get discouraged, or take more action--, read a good beginner's book. The one I like is David Boruchowitz, The Simple Guide to Freshwater Aquariums. Relax, and get oriented, so you don't feel overwhelmed. You have to learn a little something about water, and ammonia and the nitrogen cycle and Ich... but it's not really endless.
Remember you're already in the top ten percent, just because you're posting here at AC!
Faramir
05-09-2003, 3:20 AM
It should be mentioned that ick can only live on fish. Whatever is on your plants and decorations is not ick. The ick parasite is too small to see - all you can see is the cyst it creates on the fish.
bizzy928
05-09-2003, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by Faramir
It should be mentioned that ick can only live on fish. Whatever is on your plants and decorations is not ick. The ick parasite is too small to see - all you can see is the cyst it creates on the fish.
Okay thank you!
bizzy928
05-09-2003, 12:45 PM
Okay, so when I cycled my tank without adding any ammonia other than the two ammonia cartridges in the AC Minis. That meanst I DIDN'T cycle my tank.
This is probably incorrect but i'll see what you guys have to say. So adding in the 5 neon tetras would have been considered doing a fish cycle? Does that mean my tank is suitible for some more fish now?
My snails are still alive :(
The stuff on your plants is most likely just some algea growing, which should be harmless. It seems to pop up on my plants from time to time and then receeds after I cut back on light or food.
kveeti
05-09-2003, 1:16 PM
The ammonia cartridges for the AC filters are to take out ammonia, they do not add it. They are really not necessary and just an expense you don't need. You do not even need the carbon cartridge except when you need to take out medicines. Personally, I would buy a second sponge to fill the filter chamber.
So, yes, you were doing a fishy cycle. Your best bet right now would be to have ammonia, nitrIte and nitrAte test kits. Those readings will tell how far along in your cycle you came in the few days (not very far, I'd bet).
carpguy
05-10-2003, 1:29 AM
A "normal" fishy cycle takes at least a month or two. During the first phase the ammonia level will become toxically high unless you take measures to lower it. At your pH the amount of ammonia needed to reach a critically toxic level is very low. This first phase will take several weeks until a particular bacteria that eats ammonia is able to colonize the tank. This colony will convert the ammonia to nitrite, which is less toxic but still dangerous. A new colony needs to start up that will eat the nitrites and convert them to nitrates, which aren't very toxic. These are removed from the tank using regular water changes, figure about 20-25% once a week (or whatever you need to keep at healthy levels).
Any detectable ammonia or nitrite in the tank is bad for the fish. Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate tests can help you to monitor the cycle. The ammonia comes from the fish, the nitrites from the ammonia -- if you tested the water before you added the fish, both should be at zero and the guy at the fish store would tell you that your water was fine. But your tank isn't cycled and this will be a problem until it is.
New fish will most likely go the same way as the old fish. Check out the threads on fishless cycling in the Newbie forum. It works.
I second Wetman's suggestion to read a good beginner's book...especially the one he references. I personally found that book to be an excellent beginner book. I posted a link to the book at amazon.com in the Newbie Forum under the "beginner books" sticky thread.