Tank size

[Jmerk]

I was just wondering what size of tank I should get for about 25 cichlids. I want some of the smaller cichlids (kenyis, blue rams, and other lake malawi cichlids too.:dance2:





thanks
Jmerk:devil: :devil:

[Rbishop]

Not sure that mix will work. Very different habits and diets. If you try it anyways start with a minimum of a 6-8 footer.

[Jmerk]

I could just change my inventory to just Lake Malawi cichlids.
Any suggestions or favorites?:huh: :help:
Would a tank about 125 gallons work? I don't know how long they are though.
If I do get a 125g, how many cichlids from Lake Malawi could I put in there?



thanks
Jmerk

[Aislinn]

It's not just tank size that factors into stocking Malawi cichlids. There's the haps vs. mbuna question - which are you interested in stocking, or are you feeling dangerous enough to try both? If the latter, prepare for fish loss, and get an ENORMOUS tank, nothing under 220g. They need entirely different aquascapes.

Mbuna need intricate, cave riddled rock piles; haps need LOTS of open swimming room. Mbuna are significantly more territorially aggressive than haps. Mbuna are almost exclusively vegetarian algae grazers; haps are piscivores.

On top of all these factors, stocking quotas for Malawi cichlids can vary wildly with certain species. Some fish are so aggressive that keeping them means arranging your entire tank setup to suit their requirements.

Are there certain fish you're more interested in than others? If you can narrow it down a bit, it'll be a lot easier to give you a more specifically helpful answer.

[Jmerk]

My favorite cichlids from Malawi are the Mbunas. I will get some of those. If you could tell me some good speicies ideas, that would be awsome!:rolleyes:
I will get a 250 tank for these cichlids aswell.:rolleyes:






Thanks
Jmerk:joe:

[Aislinn]

Well, with a tank as big as 250 gallons, provided you have good water flow, heavy filtration, sufficient heating and enough cover in the form of lots of rock formations, you can pretty much get whatever mbuna you want. They certainly won't lack for space.

If you're interested in breeding them, the best thing to do is have a species tank - pick the exact species you want to breed, and stock only those fish. Mbuna have been known to interbreed, so if you wish to breed them it's best to keep only one kind.

If breeding's not your thing, then you need to decide how aggressive you'd like your tank stock to be. It's going to be somewhat aggressive no matter what you do - mbuna are all aggressive fish, even the relatively placid yellow labs. But then there are fish like demasoni, kenyi, auratus, and bumblebees, who are aggressive on a whole different level.

I don't mean this to seem like an interrogation, but what exactly are you looking for? What do you want the tank to end up like? Do you want fish of certain colours, or are their interactions and levels of aggression more of a priority?

Also, if you have any specific information on what type of filtration, powerheads, heating, and whatnot you'll be putting in the tank, that would help a lot with stocking advice.

[Jmerk]

I have decided to get kenyis, electric yellows, and some other similar Mbuna.

[Weezer]

We have 12 fish in our's {see sig } And takeing into consideration there potential size i thing it's just about for us..If iam understocked let me know, but i think it's good.........:dance2:

[Jmerk]

All right. I did some reasearch and got more specific. Here is my Inventory list for 250g tank:
-3 Electric Yellows
-10 Kenyis
-5 Austratus
-3 Ice blue Zebras
-5 Demasoni
-3 Electric Blue cichlids



Please review
Thanks
Jmerk

[GirlieGirl8521]

I personally wouldn't keep the Electric Yellows with the others, since they aren't near as aggressive. If you insist on them being in the tank, have a group that is larger than the others.

[Jmerk]

Ok, here is another update for 250g:
-7 Electric Yellows
-7 Kenyis
-5 Austautus
-5 Demasonis
-3 Ice blue Zebras
-4 Electric Blues
Please Review
Thanks
Jmerk

[mee-mee]

wish i could get all of those. very nice coloring you are going to have. Good luck

[Jmerk]

I thank you for your advise everyone, one more question:
Do you think I could add more to that tank?



Thanks
Jmerk:dog: :dog:

[Weezer]

We have 12 fish in our's {see sig } And takeing into consideration there potential size i thing it's just about for us..If iam understocked let me know, but i think it's good.........:dance2:
UpDate,,, Just picked up 2 Cobalt blue's...14 total, now were done..:)

[Jmerk]

I did some more reasearch and have made a few adjustments. Well..........Here you go

-7 Electric Yellows
-10 Kenyis
-5 Austautus
-3 Ice blues
-4 Electric Blues
-7 Demasonis
-3 Bumblebees

Please review

Thanks
Jmerk:devil: :devil: :Angel: :Angel:

-P.S.- What filtration do you recomend. I also want some equipment ideas too.

[Aislinn]

I wouldn't recommend keeping demasoni with kenyi and electric blues. The colouration and markings are too similar, and there is a high probability for some nasty conflicts to arise. For the same reason, I wouldn't recommend mixing bumblebees and auratus. I would also STRONGLY recommend that in a tank with more aggressive mbuna, if you're going to keep electric yellows, they should be in higher numbers than any of the other fish.

As for filtration, the more the better. Currents don't seem to bother my mbuna at all, in fact a lot of them swim in the currents from my filters. For equipment, what exactly do you mean? Aquascape equipment? Media equipment? Water treatment (like Cichlid salts) equipment?

[Jmerk]

Ok, I took your advise and here is my redo.

Fish
-8 Electric Yellows
-7 Demasonis (I will risk it)
-5 Kenyis
-5 Austrautus
-3 Ice Blue Zebras
-3 Electric Blues
-3 Cobalt Blues
-1 Pleco

EQUIPMENT

-Canister filter
-Current PC Light
-500w heater

250 Gallon w/ stand
-And all other things that cichlids need


Please review

Thanks
Jmerk:devil: :devil:

[Aislinn]

Just as a warning, if you insist on keeping demasoni with kenyi, electric blues, and cobalt blues, prepare to face some fish loss...perhaps even the loss of ALL the other blue/purple fish if the group of demasoni you get are especially aggressive. I have demasoni, and even though they're dwarf cichlids, I can assure you that ounce for ounce, they pack a bigger punch than any other mbuna. They're VERY aggressive, and will quickly become the dominant fish in your tank. They do not take at all kindly to any fish that look like them.

[Dwarf Puffers]

might aswell just look at all the information you have, the different fish-schemes you've had, and pick one / mix some :rolleyes: aint doin nuthin just sittin here changing your mind (no offensiveness there :) )

[Jmerk]

I really want demasoni and kenyis together. Those two cichlids are my very favorite!:dance2: I am a little confused though, Can i keep more than one demasoni in one tank? Anyway, if there is anything I can do to get those two together, I really want to know:)


Thanks
Jmerk

[aquaman#1]

I don't think all of those cichlids will get along or will they? Haha lol they might but you would need like a 1,000 gallon tank or @ least 500 gallons

[Aislinn]

As I said, if you insist on keeping demasoni and kenyi together, prepare to face some fish loss. Demasoni are not docile or placid in any way. Even the less aggressive ones can harrass other fish (even other very aggressive fish, like kenyi) until they die from the stress.

There are certainly exceptions to this rule. I have one female kenyi in my tank, which also has demasoni, but I actually only GOT the demasoni as an attempt to control her. She's the most aggressive kenyi I've ever seen. It worked for me, but probably only because she's such a bully. The demasoni harrass her, but she's such a punk that she gives as good as she gets.

This is not, however, what normally happens when demasoni and kenyi are mixed. What normally happens when demasoni and kenyi are mixed is that the demasoni will kill some or all of the kenyi. This is also what normally happens when demasoni are mixed with any other blue/purple fish. I would very, very strongly recommend that you not mix them.

[Jmerk]

Ok, well you know how female kenyis are yellow, maybe i should just get some female kenyis only as far as kenyis go. I would like to know what Mbuna Demasonis can get along with. If you could tell me that would be good.


Thanks
Jmerk:spam:

[Aislinn]

Female kenyi are purple. Males are yellowish. Demasoni don't exactly "get along" with any mbuna, not even each other. They're like a gang of hoodlums all hopped up on speed. Don't get me wrong, they're stunningly beautiful, but they are not community fish by any standard.

They have a tendency to display the least aggression toward mbuna that do not resemble them. In my tank, I have electric yellows, red zebras, bumblebees, demasoni, and one little punk of a female kenyi. This combination works for me, but as I said before, I would not recommend mixing demasoni and kenyi under any normal circumstances. I only did it because my female kenyi is so aggressive she used to not let any of the other fish eat. I used to have to net her when I was feeding them.

The most appropriate tankmates for demasoni are red, yellow, or white mbuna. Mind you, this does not guarantee that the demasoni will not still kill some or all of these fish. Some demasoni are just an unholy level of aggressive. Some are a little more laid back, and will have minor scuffles with tankmates, but nothing violent. A lot just depends on the individual personalities of the fish.

It helps A LOT to get them as very young juveniles. Mine were only about an inch when I got them, so they pretty much grew up with their tankmates. It also helps to have a serious amount of rockscape in the tank. When you think you have enough cave-like crevices, add at least ten more.

[YANO]

I have a demasoni and a yellow lab mix. The demasoni leave the yellow labs alone. I would stock 12-15 demasoni to keep aggression on one fish to a minimum. The aggression will be spread out over many fish as opposed to a few. These fish are nasty towards each other and other fish with similar coloration. They also have an excellent personality and are amazingly colored. Also include a lot of rock work.

[Jmerk]

I'm afraid that the evil within petsmart has confused me.:devil: At petsmart, they had a section that had a picture of kenyis that looked like Auratus (I'm sorry that I've been spelling this wrong) and a book I have looked through said that males were blue and females yellow. I think I will ask this though: Can Demasonis live with Auratus, Electric yellows, Bumblebees, and Red Peacocks

Please review
Thanks
Jmerk:)

[YANO]

I do not have experience with them but i have heard Auratus are the meanest fish!:devil:

[Jmerk]

Ok, I forgot to mention one other species that I included in my inventory. Here it is:
Demasonis
Electric Yellows
Red Peacocks
Yellow Peacocks
Auratus
Bumblebees

Please review

Thanks
Jmerk

[Aislinn]

I would take off the red and yellow peacocks. Even though your tank is large, you have to completely alter your aquascape to mix mbuna and peacocks. If you want red, go with red zebra instead. I would also choose between auratus and bumblebees, but I wouldn't keep both. You could also add either albino zebra or snow white socolofi.

[danzig]

ive never had an mbuna tank but i have owned Auratus' before and i couldnt believe how agressive they were. Made my convicts look like carebears lol.

[12 Volt Man]

what ever you do, don't put blue rams with any africans!

they will probably be killed very quickly.

[Aislinn]

what ever you do, don't put blue rams with any africans!

they will probably be killed very quickly.
Did I miss something? When did blue rams come up? Not that I'm arguing your point, mind - blue rams and Africans most definitely should not be mixed - but I'm a little confused as to where the mention of blue rams happened.

[12 Volt Man]

I was just wondering what size of tank I should get for about 25 cichlids. I want some of the smaller cichlids (kenyis, blue rams, and other lake malawi cichlids too.:dance2:





thanks
Jmerk:devil: :devil:

its on the first post:hi:

[Aislinn]

Ahhh...I see. Did I mention I'm illiterate? Cuz I am, a bit.

[Jmerk]

Ok, I like that idea of adding snow white socolofi to my tank. Here is a new list for ya'll:

-5 Demasonis
-10 Auratus
-10 Electric Yellows
-5 Snow White Socolofi
-5 Ice Blue Zebras (At petsmart, they have these with Demasonis so it will be fine)


Jmerk:spam:

[Aislinn]

Okay, I realise this is frustrating and you're probably wanting to bang your head against the wall at this point, but if you only plan on keeping only 5 each of the other types of fish, I wouldn't keep 10 auratus. The less aggressive fish should be kept in larger numbers than both the demasoni and the auratus. That way, when the demasoni and auratus are harrassing them, the other fish are in big enough numbers that no one individual takes too much of a beating.

Also, I know your budget probably has a limit (unless you're Daddy Warbucks, in which case will you PLEASE get Annie to start wearing longer dresses, because seriously) but with a tank as big as 250 gallons, you're going to be very understocked with only 35 mbuna. It's usually best to crowd mbuna, especially when you've got demasoni and auratus in the mix. If there's only a small number of fish, then the more dominant ones will claim far larger territories than they should, and will start dishing out some pretty severe beatings to any fish who strays too close.

I'm certainly not an expert, so don't take this as gospel, but in 250 gallons I'd do at least 50-75 mbuna. If you need to slowly stock the tank, start with the least aggressive fish and work your way up. The demasoni and auratus should go in LAST, only after you have full numbers of all the other fish.

[Jmerk]

Ok, Here is my new idea. I am sorry for this but I have switched to getting a 210 (I guess I forgot to mention it here! so srry though!) I just want to know how many I should I get for a 210. I am gonna say about 60 fish for it so here goes.
-10 Demasonis
-10 Arautus
-15 Snow White Socofoli
-15 Electric Yellows
-10 Ice Blue Zebras

(BTW, My very most favorite cichlids are the Demasonis and Auratus, Yes, I am an agression lover but back to the point, I would just be happy if I just had those two but I like the other cichlids too so I will get some:rolleyes: )
P.S. I saw a really nice cichlid called a Blue Jahonni. If I can find out about this fish that would be good.
P.P.S. I also saw another Mbuna called the Orange Blotch Peacock. I also want to know about this one too!

Please review
Thanks
Jmerk

[Aislinn]

Looks good. Personally, I'd switch out the Ice Blue Zebra for Red Zebra, both to introduce more colour and also to prevent additional aggression as the Demasoni age. I know you said the LFS has the Ice Blue Zebra in with Demasoni, but they do tend to get more aggressive as they mature.

[Jmerk]

Hey Aislinn, I saw your little message about nanos. Here is a cool one on another site (it's a marine site though, but i think you'll enjoy it!)
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=806020

[Aislinn]

Hey Aislinn, I saw your little message about nanos. Here is a cool one on another site (it's a marine site though, but i think you'll enjoy it!)
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=806020



Whoa...that thing is TINY. I once had a 10g nano reef, but that guy's tank is the smallest one I've ever seen.

[Jmerk]

I like it too, but I can see why he switched it....
(Did you look at all the pages??)

Jmerk

[Aislinn]

Yes, I did, and I agree. The first one was super cool looking, but from a practical standpoint it must have been a huge pain to try and maintain. The second is just as small, really, only it's a different shape. He had all those 2.5g nanos, too. Neat setups.

[Jmerk]

I just thought I should say what kind of equipment I will get.

Here goes:rant2:

Ehiem Large cansiter 2260
2 Aquaclear powerheads (990 gph ea)
500w heater
Apropriate Lighting (I will find out how long the tank is first)
210g tank
Stand


Tell me if this will work


Thanks
Jmerk:rant2: :rant2:

[Aislinn]

I would do two 250w heaters, rather than one 500w. That way, if one heater ever gets stuck on, it won't cook your fish because by itself it's not strong enough to heat up the tank that much. With Visi-Therm Deluxe or Visi-Therm Stealth heaters, there's only a remote possibility that they'll ever malfunction, but better safe than sorry.

[Jmerk]

I know this is a little:OT: but I think that I may be dreamin a little. I think that I am gonna have to get a 20g long. (I am only 13 and I only have so much space) If you could tell me some stocking suggestions for it that would be nice.

Sorry for the confusion, I might get a 210g someday in the future and I can use this info.

Thanks
Jmerk:rant2: :rant2: :argue: :argue:



P.S. Could you tell me the dimensions of the tank too (I need to see what kind of stand I need to buy)

[Jmerk]

I also forgot to mention this, but I am just as happy with South American cichlids too. I am also planning on getting lots of different kinds of fish, so I guess you can just tell me your favorites (FYI: Cichlids Mbuna of S.A. are what I am mainly looking for as far as stocking goes, so you can just give me some suggestions)

Thanks
Jmerk

[Aislinn]

I wouldn't recommend putting any mbuna in a tank as small as a 20g Long. Because of their aggressive natures, they need to be crowded a bit, and a tank that small just doesn't have the water volume necessary to maintain them in a healthy manner. You could get a couple of shelldwellers from Tanganyika, maybe. They're more appropriately sized for your tank. I don't know much about them, as I've never kept them, but I bet if you post a question in a new thread there'd be plenty of people who could help you with more info.

[Jmerk]

Ok, well I guess you could just tell me some good stocking suggestions for South American cichlids.

Thanks
Jmerk

[Aislinn]

I'm not going to be of much help to you there. The only South American cichlid I've ever kept was a Red Devil, and you most definitely cannot keep one of those in a 20g Long. I believe there are some rams that stay small, but I honestly can't tell you if a 20 Long is big enough for them. I would suspect that it's not, but I could very well be wrong. I think you should start a new thread asking about South Americans in a 20 Long, and then the people who have experience with SA cichlids can help you out.

[Jmerk]

Ok, I will do that.
I think that you may like this so I am gonna tell you what it is. I posted this exact same question on a different site called cichlidforums.com Iwill give you a link so you can see my thread there, they said some interesting things there. You might have to make an account there before you can look though so I will leave it up to you.

Here you go http://cichlidforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24865

Jmerk

[Star_Rider]

have you considered an overflow with a sump?

that is a large tank..while the eheim is a great filter it filters appro 396 GPH even with powerheads moving water ..your filtration is limited to the eheim
you could use prefilters on the powerheads but you may want to consider this set up with two cannister filters. plus the powerheads.

I run a 75 with sump and powerheads the pump os rated at 1200 gph actual filtration is less due to the restriction in the 3/4" lines feeding the tank.

I also have a 110 marine with a 30 gal sump and 1500 gph pump..this tank also has 3 powerheads in it.

[Jmerk]

I don't know of you saw the previous pages but I was just dreamin a little.