deciding if tank is overstocked?

[dbcb314]

what do you guys use to decide if the tanks are overstocked or not? im just curious bc i see people say somethin is overstocked and i wondered what system they used

[Rometiklan]

Well, for me it's a matter of intuition after abut 25 years of experince in this hobby. I don't follow a set rules like the usual "inch of fish per gallon". I will depart from any established rule under different circumstances. However, these rules can serve as a rough guide.

Factors like tank size, type of fish, filtration, live plants, etc will affect how many fish I will place in any given set-up. For example, with an AquaClear 150 on a heavily planted 10 gallon tank with regular weekly water changes, I wouldn't hesitate to put 15-20 neons in there, whereas conventional thinking might suggest that this tank is overstocked.

Monitor your water parameters regularly, and that will tell you a lot about your water quality, and whether you have too heavy of a bioload. I would urge regular water changes under any circumstances, moreso on set-ups that have heavier bioloads.

[dbcb314]

well at least someone sorta plays it by ear. i swear half the people just go by the inch per gallon thing.

thanks for response

[RTR]

Monitoring water parameters is the best way to tell, and is not at all playing it by ear. It is reading changes in the water and reacting appropriately to those changes.

If your nitrates are increasing and your KH and pH decreasing despite regular water partials, you are over-crowded or over-feeding (hard to tell the difference) or under changing, or all the above.

If you have periodic ammonia or nitrites, you are underfiltered for your stock/feeding, or are handling the filter maintenance improperly, or both.

If your nitrates are low and kept so by your partials, your KH and pH stable, if no unoxidized metabolites are ever seen, you are either not overcrowded or are compensating successfully for the crowding by upkeep.

[beviking]

Funny, I haven't seen an unoxidized metabolites test kit advertised anywhere. Care to break it down for those of us who don't know or aren't sure what THAT means???;)

[OrionGirl]

Unoxidized metabolites = ammonia or nitrite.

I would add one more piece to that--you are seeing normal growth and behavior in the fish. For example, I have my 40 overstocked, and knew it. Never had water quality problems, because it's a planted tank and I did large weekly water changes. However, my fish were not displaying normal behavior--the gouramies hid at the bottom of the tank, for example. I moved them to a smaller tank that they share with just one occupant, and they now display typical gouramie behavior. With many fish, the size of the tank isn't a growth limiting factor, but crowding and competition are slowing or preventing a fish from reaching it's normal adult size.

[dbcb314]

okey dokey

[superstein61]

Common Sense and water quality measurements. I disagree a lot with rigidity of the inch per gallon guideline.

[ChilDawg]

There is NO rigidity to that guideline, IMO and IME. There are some calculators, but even they seem to be arbitrary...see the one in Aquarium Fish Monthly for an example of one that is somewhat arbitrary.

[caz]

as long as you can keep your parameters ok, and your tank clean and your fish happy :) you can keep as many as you see fit. the only reason i use inch per gallon is in my community tank, and i dont apply it to stricktly surface dwellers, or bottom feeders to that. as long as my fish have space. i think many people are anal about bigger cichlids. like having an oscar in a 30 gallon tank. when the fish can get bigger than the tank is wide.. well you get the idea :) i dont think everyone uses the inch per gallon, but with the inch per gallon, it is easiest to keep your tank clean and at the correct parameters.

[superstein61]

Originally posted by ChilDawg
There is NO rigidity to that guideline, IMO and IME. There are some calculators, but even they seem to be arbitrary...see the one in Aquarium Fish Monthly for an example of one that is somewhat arbitrary.


Well Childawg - I had a debate a month or so ago with a few folks here who were very rigid in applying this guideline. I argued they were wrong then - glad to see the articles you mention above

[thom336]

I use these guidelines (only not very often..and bear in mind I go by imperial gallons):

Tropicals:
2.5cm per 4.55l/1" per gal. initially, then 5cm per 4.55l/2" per gal. after six months.

Coldwater:
2.5cm per 4.55l/1" per gal.

Marines:
2.5cm per 18l/1" per 4 gal. for mixed fish/inverts; 2.5cm per 9l/1" per 2 gal for fish only.

Ponds:
25cm per 455l/10" per 100gal.

[thom336]

And I just consulted the conversions section of my diary (handy little things...) and apparently in order to convert from imperial gallons to US gallons you have to multiply imperial by 1.20095.

[optix]

You can use the inch per gallon rule for neon tetra's but you aren't gonna be using that for an oscar or green terror or any cichlid for that matter.

[ChilDawg]

Interestingly enough, there is a not-so-rigid guideline for Cichlids...5 gallons to the inch seems to be widely used, but that fails to take into account the deep-bodied and chunky Cichlids being different from, say, the Lamprologines.

If I followed that when I got my shellies, I'd need a 15g to take care of a pair of Multies, and a 20g minimum for some of the larger ones...that might be a bit excessive!

[optix]

Yeah true, I forgot about shellies and some of the smaller african specie's, but as far as the bigger CA/SA I think you have to use your best judgement on how to stock your tanks because if you have 180 gallon's thats saying you have 180 inchs of fish, I doubt you are gonna put 18 green terrors in there lol.

[ChilDawg]

(I think some people might try that...I hope that they find this board in time to be stopped!!!)

[optix]

Originally posted by ChilDawg
(I think some people might try that...I hope that they find this board in time to be stopped!!!)


Yes very true... makes me wonder how many large american cichlids have perished behind this misleading. Almost makes me feel like a barbarian. If we are gonna cage these guys up and make an animal our pet I would hope we would do it with responsibility and respect for the species. I wouldn't wanna be thrown in a cage with a serial killer. Ya know what I mean. Just always happy to see the people on the board that are responsible when they don't have the necessary space, like you chilldawg, I know you have quite the dream of owning these guys but you are waiting until ya have adequate space. I wish everyone was like that.

[ChilDawg]

Thanks for the compliment...I wish that everyone could read as much before they started the cichlid hobby as most of us here...that would save so many fishes (and put so many illegit fish farms out of business...)

[ChilDawg]

I'm gonna mention that that is not a shot at anyone who overstocks tanks...if they're coming here to lurk or to post, we'll help them out!

[Dragon_Lord_Tia]

with cichlids if you have cichlids its better to put a few to many in so the fish have little or no terrortory to defend which should eliminate fighting if you have chosen your fish correctly you should not have to do this as much as would would with uncompatable fish.;) think about it

[optix]

well I thought about it . My thought is we should take the bloods crips folks mafia and put them all on one city block. ya know since there is no where to establish territory and maybe they wont fight ;). An american cichlid will establish some portion of the tank as territory trust me, my male convict established his territory right behind a piece of driftwood that is one big open area. and he guards it with his life. now as for african's sometimes its ok to overstock but I still don't reccomend that either

[ChilDawg]

Originally posted by Dragon_Lord_Tia
with cichlids if you have cichlids its better to put a few to many in so the fish have little or no terrortory to defend which should eliminate fighting if you have chosen your fish correctly you should not have to do this as much as would would with uncompatable fish.;) think about it

That is a recommendation for mbuna. Unfortunately, that does NOT, repeat DOES NOT, work for all cichlids, and it may not be even applicable for all groups of mbuna!!!

[Dragon_Lord_Tia]

in every case it has work for me either be with americans or africians they have a little terrory and it "in my cases" it stoped most of the fighting betten other species they would swim around happy and fight free but once a pair forms its a different story all togeather they will make their terrortory around a pot or rock and guard it even if it meens the odd fight with an other fish

[ChilDawg]

Ahh...I see. I was thinking of species tanks or tanks where pairs may form. I guess we're somewhat in agreement then. I still wouldn't recommend this, but I could see it work to an extent.

[optix]

Everyone can break the "rules" and make it work. what may work for you may be a nightmare for another and what may be a nightmare for you......just may be the perfect match for someone else. Just how it is I guess. As for a normal medium. I'd advise highly against it.

[Dragon_Lord_Tia]

it truley works

[dbcb314]

For cichlids, I think you should get a general idea on what will work in a tank, but then just play it by ear. No two cichlid are alike.