Why does everyone hate Marc Weiss?

[bimmersamster]

Honestly, i am not against him or have any association with him, but every search i've done regarding his products have turned up as negative opinions about his products...

Before losing a batch of gorgeous discus to the stupidity of my "fish-clueless" family (if you want to know, just ask and I will explain the catastrophe), I had used his products in the disus tank...

After a few weeks of using Instant Amazon, I noticed the water smelled like fresh vegetables (that was weird!), and my algae was slowly disappearing (well...that was a little bit unwanted, see my post WHY DOES EVERYONE HATE ALGAE??)....and for unknown reasons, my nitrate levels started to read 0 ppm, when it would usually read 10 ppm right before a water change..... (my ammonia and nitrite levels were always at 0, obviously, so no change there)

Now, I read his advertisements, and YES...i concur they do sound like snake oil....he just mentions that there is a hogwash of trace elements....bio-enzymatic-hogwash, and nutrient-abracadabra in his products that make me raise my eyebrow....but when i use it...the environment drastically improved...

has there ever been some PROPER controlled third party research done to his products? I am greatly interested in what is in his products...


SECONDLY, and unrelated to this topic....well, perhaps i'll post another thread since it IS unrelated...

stay tuned for the thread " WHY DOES EVERYONE HATE ALGAE??"

[slipknottin]

Its a manufacturer's responsibility to show how and why a product performs as advertised.

Would you purchase a new car to test if it worked?

[wetmanNY]

Fishheads resist hype.

Tetra made a drastic marketing blunder with "EasyBalance"-- by suggesting that water changes were no longer necessary. That was like telling Ned Flanders you no longer needed to say grace at breakfast and you'd still go to heaven.

An utterly candid description of what's in a good product will sell it, even to fishheads who don't fully comprehend the chemistry-- but who can tell bogus from real.

Marc Weiss sells stuff in the snake oil manner-- so we figure it must be snake oil. "Instant Amazon" is too close to the old joke about Instant Water-- "just rehydrate it and you've got water!" But I think he does his own market copywriting. And I think he doesn't listen or read. Where was that Marc Weiss interview published? A disaster!

Kordon and Seachem-- for a contrast in marketing style-- give you enough genuine science to reassure you and make you feel like you've been treated as an adult.

...as far as algae are concerned, well, here at the National Algae Collection, we feel...

[RTR]

The Skeptical Aquarist pinned it beautifully. If fat ad copy sounds like snake oil or bad sci-fi, why would you expect anything real about the product? If if some of his products did perfom to the end result advertised, I'd feel embarrassed to buy them.

Seachem (Greg Morin and his late father before him) raised the bar for aquarium products companies by deciding to be straight and do disclosure. Tetra (which has been bought out/sold in any case - it is not the same firm anymore) went the other direction. Dupla was headed the wrong direction as well even before they were sold - what will happen to them now remains to be seen. For myself, when I have a choice in purchasing, I'll go with the firm which does not treat me as though I were a gullible fool, which I try not to be.

[wetmanNY]

Then, on the other hand, there's the New Wave channeling the psychic eco-friends through the gates of chaos to harness the natural forces of magnetism and light aspect of aquaria: http://www.keysmariculture.com/articles/article6.htm

[OrionGirl]

This led him on a three year journey of studies on the underlying principles of natural habitats, and what makes them function so smoothly. What he found was basic and simple, but involved quantum physics...


So that's the problem...I don't teach my fish higher level physics. ;)

[ChilDawg]

I used such and such a product and things got worse! ...I got algae!

Nature always compensates at least doubly for whatever we are trying to do. My products enhance natural processes; nature is not working on your time frame. People want instant gratification. The hobbyist doesn't realize, for example, when commercial aquaculture systems are established, things like phosphates and nitrates are intentionally added in relatively large amounts. Aquariums are often out of cycle; even when apparently cycled. Professionals allow time for the various cycles to synchronize. When they do click, the system is close to bullet proof. Most hobbyist panic at the first sight of algae; there is an industry built on killing it. You wont take the time to cycle and synchronize properly. Your hobby books have taught you the nitrogen cycle, yes? How come in Marine Biology 101, Page One, Paragraph One it says something like nitrification in the sea is a function of cyanobacteria? (Hobbyists spend a lot of time and money killing it!!). Algae live in the cells of your corals. Anything that discourages them inhibits growth of what you are trying to grow. Your object should be balance. Minimal nuisance algae with desirable algae and organisms out-competing. This takes time. This takes balance. THIS TAKES AERATION! Nitrification is an oxidative process requiring a high redox potential. I have found many if not most reef tanks at midnight are suffocating, on the edge of disaster till the lights go on; saved by the bell so to speak.
If a product causes some algae, increase aeration, its rarely adequate in home aquariums, you could suspend use of a product until algae contracts, then re-dose. Soon each dose will do its job more to your liking. Professionals often force and push the algae growth to maximum, until it burns itself out; now the cycle is really dialed in. The technique is not suggested for the home hobbyist without aquaculture training in my opinion.


In other words, we have a CYA way to get out of taking responsibility for a poor product???

Read the rest of the FAQs, and ask yourself: "Does this stuff scare me?"

[TomFromStLouis]

As a seeker of truth I have a deep appreciation for the ability of someone to move their mouth and spew forth grammatically correct nonsense. And that link is a four star example.

Thanks for the laugh of the day.

[Cloud-9]

I thought Living Water Vital was just too good to be true when it came out years ago. I felt the same way when Instant Amazon came out. However, I decided to order a bottle of Instant Amazon to use in a plant tank that I was planning on putting together.

I assembled the plant tank and added the fish. And then added Instant Amazon according to the directions. And to my surprise, that was the smoothest and most successful start I have ever had in my years of fishkeeping. The plants started to grow almost immediately. Even the java ferns were quick to attach to rocks and driftwood. I was never able to detect ammonia with my test kit. I did not encounter any of the normal green algae. The only algae I ended up with were the hard-to-get-rid-of hair algae.

For fish, I had a small Uaru, Corydoras, White Clouds, and a pair of Praecox Rainbows. For water movement, I installed a Whisper power filter on the back, with no filter pads. Technically, I didn't have a filter at all. None of the fish that has occupied that tank ever got sick. The White Clouds were breeding on top of the thick moss on the upper parts of the tank. The tank continued to run well for a few years until I introduced an Ornate Bichir. He ended up eating all the other fish in the tank. The Uaru got big and started munching on the plants, so I got rid of him eventually. I still have the Bichir, seven years later.

I could have just gotten lucky. But I would like to give his products the benefit of the doubt. I have also had the best of luck with his Aquatronics line of medications.

[wetmanNY]

I'm all for tannins and other polyphenols in softwater planted tanks. Just the kind of thing I do myself, using peatwater, spent green teabags, dried beech leaves-- or "Instant Amazon" from a bottle. It's the infated hype and mystification that rub me the wrong way. The tannins are good, with these tannin-loving fishes!

[RTR]

Uaru in a plant tank? Sounds like a DIY salad bar to me. I hope it was moved elsewhere.

[agilis]

I remember Marc Weiss from when he lived in downtown Manhattan, and was in the printing business. He is a nice guy, simply running a business. He has managed to develop a relationship with almost everyone in the industry. Marc has a vast network of contacts, and information.

His products are directed to less sophisticated aquarists who want magic products and plug-in solutions to compensate for their lack of skill. This group constitutes the great majority of people with pet fish. Lots of people want to believe that some supplement will make them thin, or cure baldness, or that some product will improve their sex life or memory. Anything that promises effortless solutions to vexing problems will find many, many customers. Practically the entire American consumer economy is based on the assumption that people are easily manipulated. Marc is no worse in this respect than automobile manufacturers, or people who make detergent. Just look at ads on TV or in magazines. They tend to be a lot more hyperbolic than Marc's copy.

[wetmanNY]

Absolutely! Nobody hates Marc Weiss.

[watergardens]

I agree that the writing on the bottle smacks of "snake oil salesmanship." I have tried both Living Waters Vital and Natural Aquarium Vital. Got no results at all with the first one, but NAV has made a big difference. My nitrates stay lower, my plants grow better, and my fish are more active and healthy-looking. I've read comments by people who've had no improvement at all with using it. Could be that it has something my well water lacks. Go figure.