HELP...DISCUS IS IN TROUBLE!!!!

[fishkid951]

hey all
please if u can reply to this message please do so right away as i need serious help!!!
i hav had a discus for about 2 yrs and hav had no problems with him. until a few weeks ago. he somehow got gill fluke. the water at this time was good and i had not added any other fish into the tank. how could he hav got it??
i treated him 3 times now and each time it would get a little bit better and then the next day turn bad again. i hav done many water tests and most of them were good.
tonight i did another water test and the rusults not so good...
ammonia:0ppm
nitrate:0ppm(the tank is planted and has been running for 18months)
nitrites:0.25ppm(is this bad)
ph:6.4
temp:31
i used worm-rid when treating this and i hav done my w/c(25% a week) and hav been increasing the temp to 32*C. what else hav i got to do to finally get rid of this fluke. i came home today and it was alot worse than it was 1.5hours before.
the fish in the tank are:
15x baby kribensis fry
12xsailfin molly fry
2x boesmani rainbows, 1xbn
1xdiscus
the kribensis fry will be moved out this weekend.
please help me!!!!!
thanx all
fishkid

[Cathy G]

First do massive water changes - 70%. Make sure the water you add back to the tank is the same temperature as the tank. Then add 1 teaspoon salt per 10g's water back in with your clean water. (Non iodized salt).

Second - how do you know this is gill flukes? Usually adult fish don't suffer too much from fluke infestations. Most of the time however gill fluke infestations wipe out baby fish. Are your krib fry fine? If so, I doubt you have gill flukes.

I say to add salt because it will help the fish all deal with the toxicity of nitrites.
I also don't think bosemani should be in with discus - the temps are a bit warm. However, this issue can be dealt with later.

What exactly are the symptoms you are seeing in your discus? And, I wouldn't move anything out of there until I had a idea of what is going on. You might end up spreading the disease/parasite to other tanks...

Cathy

[Star_Rider]

Good call Cathy

[fishkid951]

hey thanx for replies
all the other fish re fine and are doin great.
the saymptoms i am experiencing is him flickering, rubbing against things, a clear/white theing commin out of his gills when he breathes and back in when he doesnt(one side alot more than the other), shyness, heavy breathing...i think thats all
please help
is it gill fluke or am i wrong??
fishkid

[wolf13]

that sounds like it could also be a bacterial infection brought on by stress. discus are a shoaling species that prefere a group to be comfortable usually, though i have heard of highly aggressive loaner discus. they are also extremly snesitive to water conditions, and from what i've read, even that small amount of nitrites could cause issues, compounded with the stress of medication. also, a bacterial infection like flexibactor will respond to increased temps with an increased growth rate.

[Cathy G]

Why don't you pm star-rider, he knows a lot more about what a discus can handle. It isn't a gill fluke - they are to tiny to see with our naked eye. Since the fish has been on anti parasite meds, I'm wondering if it is a fungus or bacteria infection and thats the stringy thing you are seeing. It might also be excess slime coat? In which case a salt bath would get rid of it.

Until you hear from a discus expert, I'd add extra airstones/bubble wand and drop the level of water in the tank to increase the oxygen content in the water. If there is something going on in his gills you can bet he is having trouble breathing.

Cathy

[kurtr12]

You'll probably get a good answer if you go to the simplydiscus forums

[fishkid951]

Why don't you pm star-rider, he knows a lot more about what a discus can handle. It isn't a gill fluke - they are to tiny to see with our naked eye. Since the fish has been on anti parasite meds, I'm wondering if it is a fungus or bacteria infection and thats the stringy thing you are seeing. It might also be excess slime coat? In which case a salt bath would get rid of it.

Until you hear from a discus expert, I'd add extra airstones/bubble wand and drop the level of water in the tank to increase the oxygen content in the water. If there is something going on in his gills you can bet he is having trouble breathing.

Cathy

Thanx.....What is star riders username?

[Cathy G]

Hi,
Don't know his 'real name' but you can click the Private Message link under his name - I think his is the third letter here... that will get you to him.
Cathy

[fishkid951]

Thanx for that. I have something...May be what is wrong...may not be....here it goes...
Ok
I was talking to this guy on MSN and told him what has been happening and he seems to think it is the dreaded
"DISCUS PLAGUE". Do you think this is a reasonable diagnosis. He gave me some links i will post here...What do you all think?
http://www.aquaria.info/index.php?name=New...4&theme=Printer
http://article.discusnews.com/cat-02/plaque.shtml
Fishkid

[Cathy G]

I couldn't get any text for the first link. The second was interesting. Sounds like whatever initiates the plague leads to massive secondary infections... I've heard of potassium permanganate dips for all kinds of things so I don't think the writer is off the wall on it. Wait for Star_rider to weigh in...

What concerns me about the plague route is that the fish has been subjected to all that anti-worm medicine and given time and pristine/clean water he might throw off the infection on his own. Perhaps the plague treatment isn't necessary. (Do you have enough tanks and uncontaminated/seeded filters to accomplish the dip and move thing?)

Hopefully star will get out of bed soon and answer..! :coffee2:
Cathy

[fishkid951]

here is a vid...look at his gills...
http://s125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/fishkid951/?action=view&current=P5040018.flv

[Star_Rider]

couldn't see the link.
but with the plague it usually affect slime coat on the outside..the fish will literally look like it's skin is peeling off..does it look like this?
problems with these many time and with stressed fish is secondary infections.
I am leaning towards the gills affected by the nitrites at .25 any level is not good for discus..not to mention other fish.

I think this discus should be placed in a hospital tank with warm water..spike to to minimum 86 and increase to 90..discus love warm water. add salt to get it to 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons..you can go as high as 1 per 5 gallons..hypersalinity will take care of any parasite possibilities add the high temp and parasites should be under control.
you will need to stay on top of the water parameters..if you have a seeded filter use it..I like sponge filters in my q tanks.

I would do daily water changes keeping the water warm and keeping tha salt at a ratio of 1 tsp per 10 to start.

add an airstone as you will need to keep the O2 high and warm water has low dissolved O2.

lets see if this helps with the breathing..

do you know how long the nitrites have been at .25?
I suspect the fish has darkened and is hiding..are the fins clamped?

[fishkid951]

today the breathing is alot better...all though i am expecting it could go bad again like all the other times....
on a different forum i hav asked the same question and there are a few discus nuts there and they said that from the vid i posted there looks to be nothing wrong and this problem is from my nitrite reading of 0.25. is this right...here is what one person said...


Is this a recent clip? I have to say on looking at it I agree with Andy although as I've said before I know nothing about Discus other than what I have read so I might not be seeing what someone in the know would. He certainly doesn't look timid or like he's hiding from you and does just look like he's scouting for food. No problem with the other fish either, seems quite social. Nice colour to him, very pretty Some fish are picky with what they will eat but from that clip he doesn't look thin or ill to me.




Just had a look at your video and IMO I think you are over concerned. The fish has strong colours and red eyes. It might be breathing a bit quick but what is the temperature? Its mooching round looking for food. A sick discus will not do that, it will go very dark in colour, emaciated (wasted) and hide permanently. Yours has none of these. The bit of skin flicking on the edge of its gills could be just that, skin. As far as scratching and flicking of its fins go, what do you do if you have an itch ?? Does'nt mean you have any plague. Just keep an eye on your water params and go easy on the medications

thanx all on your veiws

[Cathy G]

Keep the water clean and add the salt if you haven't already. I'd also add that airstone if you haven't already. Time will tell... it could have been all the medicine and nitrites that caused the reaction you saw.

Glad to hear he is better - we will keep our fingers crossed. Let us know what happens ok?

Cathy

[fishkid951]

Just did another water change(33% to get rid of nitite.) then I did a water test.....Here is what it showed...
Temp: 30
pH:6.8
Ammonia (ppm): 0
NitrIte (ppm): 0
NitrAte (ppm):10

I did my test really carfully and it turns out i needed to shake natrate solution for longer than I have been. Do you think these parametres are good...
Any ideas/thoughts on the discus and this post(water parametres etc)
Cheers
PS. I think the discus plague is out of the question. His gills were not too bad today, but still room for improvement

[Cathy G]

Your water parameters are just great, keep them there and all your fish should be fine. (You may need to start thinking about a better/cooler water tank for the bosemani...)

A couple of things to think about regarding water changes. Though nitrates are an indicator of water quality, they should not be thought of as the main reason to change your water. For example, if you have a planted tank often nitrates will always be low and that might lead to you think you don't have to change your water. There are many things which get into our tanks which we cannot control such as molds, bacteria, flukes... stuff like that. When you change water, not only are you reducing nitrates, but you are lightening the load of those pathogens in your tank. This will only do good for your fish.

Keep up the good work, once your tank is fully cycled again - if those numbers you got stay that way through the next week - then when you do your water change, don't replace the salt.

Have a good weekend,
Cathy

[5xevy]

You may want to write Andrew Sol.

He wrote a book on Discus.

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108681&highlight=discus

[greyhoundfan]

You may want to write Andrew Sol.

He wrote a book on Discus.

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108681&highlight=discus

Andrew Soh:)

He's the expert for sure.

[manitu710]

after watching the video and reading

discus should be keept in a group at least of 6

and how can you put in mollys and platys and bosmanis

there are lots of DISCUS ONLY FORUMS on the Net with carry alot of info

with discus there is no wonder that this discus is not well

why not read books about discus care

before taking them on

kind regards

Gerald

[Star_Rider]

after watching the video and reading

discus should be keept in a group at least of 6

and how can you put in mollys and platys and bosmanis

there are lots of DISCUS ONLY FORUMS on the Net with carry alot of info

with discus there is no wonder that this discus is not well

why not read books about discus care

before taking them on

kind regards

Gerald

there are some good sites with info on discus..there is also some information that needs to be taken with a grain of salt.