Are ferts needed with Flourite/Eco-Complete

www.theplantedtankFAQ.com

www.rexgrigg.com

Read those.

And yes you do need ferts. Those substrates are mineral rich. They have no macros.

OK Rex, I read through your guides again, and still don't get it. If my plants are growing well and reproducing, why would I need to dose ferts? Why on earth would one go through the hassle of dosing and holding the right spoon, and measuring, etc. if my plants are getting what they need?

Now keep in mind, I don't change my water on my heavily planted tank, so I don't suck up all the goodies that accumulate in my substrate.

I just think the statement that one needs to dose ferts is not true. I don't need vitamins if I'm eating food that provides me with all the nutrients my body requires (not as witty as your analogies, but you get my point).

Dose now. Prevent algae.

Dose later. Try and get rid of algae.

If your lighting is low the need for nutrients is lower than if the lighting is high. Plants can go without food and vitamins for a while. Then growth stalls and algae shows up.

Not changing the water in a well lit CO2 injected tank is a huge mistake. Would you want to live in a bathroom with your entire family with a toilet that doesn't flush?

geofied said:

OK Rex, I read through your guides again, and still don't get it. If my plants are growing well and reproducing, why would I need to dose ferts? Why on earth would one go through the hassle of dosing and holding the right spoon, and measuring, etc. if my plants are getting what they need?

Now keep in mind, I don't change my water on my heavily planted tank, so I don't suck up all the goodies that accumulate in my substrate.

I just think the statement that one needs to dose ferts is not true. I don't need vitamins if I'm eating food that provides me with all the nutrients my body requires (not as witty as your analogies, but you get my point).

Click to expand...

not doing water changes is a bad idea.. there is always WASTE, and the ONLY way to get rid of it is with water changes. plants dont use absolutely everything in the tank. if you feel that you MUST leave all the mung and detrius in the substrate, just dont gravel vac, but ALWAYS do water changes.

I would still recommend gravel vaccing.. i gravel vac once a week on BOTH my heavily planted tanks and the plants still do great.

Tom Barr has a method for low tech tanks and it depends significantly on the fact that you dont want to change lots of water weekly. But there are many factors like your fish load, for example. Just remember your plants need macro and micro nutrients mainly governed by how much light they get and how many/demanding they are. Some setups with heavier stocked tanks (fish wise) and depending on the types of food, may get enough nitrate and phosphates. But even then you still need to give the plants Potassium, for example, and perhaps micros. Sometimes the effect can be almost instant when things are out of balance on a high light tank. On a lower light tank when things are less out of balance it may tank a long time but usually a horrible algae outbreak is the end result. I've gone through some nasty $h!t before I started dosing daily and upping my co2.

Sorry folks, but the experience (limited as it may be) I have had in my tanks does not match with yours, or your logic. The reason I have become such an advocate of most of Walstad's methods is because it works for me and because it is ecologically sound.

Algae? Had it. Started to get bad, bought an SAE. Did nothing but added bio load to an already stocked tank. Did as Walstad suggested, added Duckweed, covered the back of the tank with cloth to filter (not completely block) the window light. Presto, 1-2 weeks the algae was reduced to very light film on the remaining window side of tank. Very easy to scrape off, not a big deal. Bumped up to 30w from 20w for ~3 watts/g, no increase of algae, in fact the opposite. Also, I run my lights for 12-14 hours a day *gasp*. Last I checked the sun was up more than 10 hours in tropical and sub-tropical regions where most of the plants we use in our hobby come from (yes I realize the intensity changes throughout the day). Following the success I had with the aforementioned tank, I have successfully controlled algae blooms in 3 other tanks (all moderate light) with the duckweed/light filtering method.

Rex, seriously, that is a cute analogy with the bathroom, but c'mon you're a smart guy. Plants clean the water and to some extent the substrate. And they are darn good at it too. Why do you think my tank doesn't have an inch layer of crap on the bottom? You'd think I'd see it, it's white gravel for carp's sake. Organic matter settles and decomposes. Organic matter is made up of Carbon and a host of other yummy nutrients that plants use to grow. They use duckweed and water lettuce to clean water in waste treatment plants. To take your analogy one further, would you drink water that you took a dump in a week ago? Heck yes you would, and it may be because you trust plants to help to clean it (OK, you probably wouldn't because I think you mentioned you have well water, but the reasoning still stands). You guys all love plants, then why the heck don't you give them the credit they deserve? Holy cow, we force-feed our plants CO2 and they gobble it up, turn it into oxygen, and ask for more. If you trust plants to clean the water of toxic gas, why wouldn't you trust them to suck up decomposing organic matter like it's their job? It is their flippin' job, this is what plants do in nature, they clean the air and water and dirt of crap. Manure anyone? Plants in nature are the only thing keeping us from having to wear fishbowls on our heads hooked up to an air purifier. Did you ever consider that the reason you have to do weekly water changes is that you are giving the plants nutrients (ferts) that they normally would be sucking out of the water and substrate to keep it clean? It's like me hooking up a CO2 canister to a trees that fed it intravenously, and wondering why the smog was so bad lately.

I will say this again, I have not lost a single fish in this tank since I set it up in January. This is not the case any of my other tanks. My fish are very important to me, I treat them as I would want to be treated. If I didn't think the water was clean enough for me to drink, I wouldn't put my fish in the water. Keep in mind please, that I do weekly 20% water changes and gravel vac my other 3 aquariums religiously. I do this because I know the plant load is not enough to keep the water safe for my fish. If I could retrofit these tanks without fear of stressing the fish out, I would do it in a heartbeat.

Anyway, rant off, for now. But some of you folks really are frustrating. Do everyone here a favor and open your minds a little to the natural side of this wonderful hobby. That's why I'm doing this, and why I want to help others to do this, so I can embrace nature and capture a tiny slice of it for everyone to enjoy.

Peace, Love, and CO2...

Dissolved Organic Compounds. Plants don't remove many of those.

Duckweed and water lettuce is used as ONE STAGE in a water treatment plant and that's to remove excess nutrients.

If your method works for you that's great. But there are many more people who have found success with the EI method of dosing.

The Walstad method works. But it's a totally different fringe philosophy. Kind of like Scientology compared to mainstream religions. Yeah it works for some people. But ruins many more.