New Africans Rubbing on the Rocks is my Ph too high?

[dcallen]

I just added a few new juvenile Africans and have noticed one in particular a juvenile Red Empress that is not swimming very much and is rubbing against the rocks periodically. Is this Ick or is my Ph too high? I haven't observed any white spots on the fish. My Ph is running at about 8. 3 to 8.4 which seems a bit high to me and if so what is the best way to lower it to say 8.0? Would a water change be in order? The tank has been setup for almost 3 weeks. Thanks in advance for any help you can give.


Thanks..

[ChilDawg]

I think it's a parasite...that pH isn't too high for those fish, I don't believe.

[optix]

Gotta be a parasite, thats nowhere near to high for most african's they enjoy 8.5 as the medium im pretty positive. I'd go with childawg. that definatly sounds like a parasite

[dcallen]

Thanks for the replies guys. What would you recommend as a treatment for them?


Thanks...

[ChilDawg]

Look up the treatments for gill flukes on www.skepticalaquarist.com.

[optix]

If it is indeed ich, get something with malachite green as the active ingredient like maracyn and up the temp to about 85 degrees and do this for about 3 day's. that way all of the tomites (spelling) are killed during there free swimming stage. If its velvet which is much like ich visually get some maracide. you should get a quarintine tank to if you have any other fish in the tank who might be sensitive to salt because these medicines pack a large amount of sodium chloride

[ChilDawg]

I'd stay with the ich meds for longer, even at the higher temperature...just to make sure that all the free-swimmers are killed.

[dcallen]

Guys,

Thanks for the advice on this. I woke up this morning and checked on the fish, they are all eating well and I have not observed any spots on the fish. I really don't want to add meds to the tank if I don't have to, and I'm not crazy about adding copper to the tank either. I have raised the temperature in the tank as a precaution, I take it the fish will not be affected too much by the increase in temperature? What do you think about UV sterilizers are they a waste of money? I believe a Quarantine tank might be better than the UV. Thanks for the help.

[ChilDawg]

I think a q-tank would be your best bet, but if they aren't doing anything special, I wouldn't move any or medicate any...just have the q-tank handy in case things do change.

[JSchmidt]

Are you sure he's not just defining a territory? My african cichlids make little, repeated swipes at rocks all the time, especially when the tank is newly decorated. It kind of looks like rubbing. Sometimes, but not always, this is accompanied by flaring (extending the fins and shaking back and forth). If your fish has an external infection (e.g., ick) you should be able to see something.

Your pH should be fine for those fish. I would hesitate on medicating until you more evidence that the fish are ill. UV sterilizers, while cool and high up in the 'neat gadget list' are not that useful for fighting illness. Most illnesses with which we're concerned aren't sufficiently free-floating to make UV worthwhile.

If you want another source for help in diagnosing illness (even though I'm not convinced your fish is sick), try www.fishyfarmacy.com.

Good luck,
Jim

[demon_surfer]

They may just be a bit stressed out is all, are the ones rubbing up against the rock being beat on alot maybe? give it some time before you put meds up, but you could try doing a water change and upping the temp a few degrees.

You said they where new, how new..if you are talking about you JUST put them in the tank then it maybe that the comditions of your water..PH etc are diffrent significantly from what the place you got them from had. This can cause stress and rubbing on rocks is a sign of that. give it some time and see what happens.

but yeah if ich appears treat it :)

[Reiner]

I'm with JSchmidt all the way on this 1. My Red Empress and the Moorii both do the very same thing and it is just a sign of trying to establish dominance. Keep an eye on them though but I would hold of on treading them for a little until you know more.

[dcallen]

Hey Guys,

Thanks so much for all the advice. Jschmidt and demon_surfer I just put the fish in this past Tuesday, the only fish in there at the time was my juvenile yellow lab. I added all juvenile fish as well, and the yellow lab was chasing the fish unmercifully, it's not as bad now as it was the first day though. I have noticed that the fish are flaring their fins as well. The Red Empress was the one that displaying the behavior the most with the rubbing thing and shaking a bit, but I've seen all of them flare their fins. I have noticed no outward sign of infection, I did test the water last night the Ph is about 8.3-8.4, ammonia at 0 and nitrites at 0 as well. The nitrate is about 15-20 ppm within the safe area. I know that my Ph is higher than the LFS for sure, so maybe they just freaked a little too, I'll keep an eye out and see what happens. Thanks again...

[JSchmidt]

Given the short time these guys have been together, it sure sounds like normal cichlid boisterous behavior...

Jim

[demon_surfer]

yeah nothing serious, just sit back and enjoy the show :D

[ChilDawg]

I concur...the yellow lab is bound to do some chasing, as being bumped from "only cichlid" status to "one of plenty" cuts down on the territory held by said fish.

None of them have established territory, so it makes more sense that they would be flexing the muscles a little bit.

Even though it seems to be normal behaviour in the eyes of the most experienced of the respondents to your thread, I would be remiss to say that you no longer need a q-tank. For this instance, you probably do not need one, but, given the way cichlids can behave, you might want one in case territorial battles in the near future turn ugly.

[dcallen]

Thanks again, I believe from what you all have said that it is probably just normal cichlid behavior. ChiliDawg I agree with you it would be nice to have a Q Tank for sure, I think I'll invest in a 10 gallon tank, heater, and sponge filter. Do you recommend starting it with all new water or getting some water from my cichlid tank? Thanks and sorry for all the questions...


-Don..

[ChilDawg]

Don, I recommend running the sponge in the main tank, and maybe stealing a little bit of established gravel from there, but water really doesn't contain beneficial bacteria to the extent that substrate and filter media do...just as long as the water is similar to what is in the main tank, you should be okay on the q-tank experience.

~Matthew

[Cloud-9]

You have many options in managing a quarantine tank. I used to clean the tank and let it dry after being used to house a fish being medicated. I leave it dry until needed. I chose this option so that I won't have to do any maintenance on it. Letting the tank dry might also help kill any microorganisms that are in there.

You can also keep it running at all times. Perhaps you might be able to put a very hardy fish in there to keep it cycled. The tank will always be ready to house any sick fish. In a normal soft to medium water tank, a corydora would fill this role quite nicely. He will just go through whatever treatment the temporary occupants go through. He'll be the cleanest fish in your collection. This may not work with highly aggressive fishes even if your maintenance fish is also from the rift lakes.

[scholar]

As a preventative measure, I would do two 40% water changes rather quickly. Just in case something is wrong with the water. :)

[dcallen]

Thanks guys. The fish look great and they are eating like little pigs so it looks like all is well at this point. Water quality is just fine as well. Thanks for all the help.