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View Full Version : 3 deaths - help?


biancaj
05-24-2007, 8:26 PM
hey guys,
i'm actually asking these questions in regard to my husband's new aquarium. i don't really know much about marine tanks.
his tank is about 2 months old, it is cycled (ammonia and nitrites 0, nitrates 20) and he used 2 damsels ( 1 blue one that has like a masked looking face and one called yellowbelly) to cycle. i know that at least the yellowbelly one is part of his problems. the fish store owner said these two were less aggressive damsels and i know how listening to fish store owners isn't usually the best thing to do but this one is really great. they will advise you against certain purchases if they know they won't work, they do fish shows all the time, he's just well experienced. so to what's happening:

2 damsels came first along with some snails and hermit crabs. then he added a cleaner shrimp and a sandsifting goby. the goby was fine and eating well only the first day, then it went into hiding.about a week later a flame angel and like a week later i guess he got a pair of black and white clownfish, a white anenome with purple tips and a copperbanded butterfly fish.

first death was the goby. as i said it only ate and swam around the first day and then dug a tunnel under a rock and wasn't seen again until we spotted him semi floating around 4 days later. he was still alive but clearly dying and it didn't take long until he was dead. we think he starved and i think he went into hiding because of the damsel(s) tho we didn't actually see anyone pick on him. he didn't look injured but i found it strange why he came out from under the rock when he hasn't done so the entire time.

the second death was the butterfly fish ( my favourite of his bunch). he died about five days after we got him and he was fine the first four days. hubby bought him mysis shrimp because he's supposed to be a finnicky eater but he ate along with everyone else from day one. he was swimming around and picking on rocks. when hubby first put him in the cleaner shrimp got to excited and jumped on him. on day three i did notice a small abrasion like a bit of skin was scratched away on him. on day four he would hide behind a rock all day and in the middle of the day i noticed his belly looked red like it was bleeding. it got darker and more noticeable throughout the rest of the day and he died that night. the fish store owner thought the shrimp may have injured him. that little abrasion didn't seem like the likely cause of death tho. also the fish store owner said that as fish die they will have color changes and that's probably why his belly turned red.

third is really strange, 99% chance he's dead also. it was the smaller of the two clownfish - he was just gone one morning. they both looked healthy - the remaining one still does. swimming actively, no signs of anything wrong, they were eating (other one still is), and we noticed noone pick on them. really, i watch the tank all the time, the damsels and the angel swim near them/him but have never seen them pick on either one. we looked behind the tank and all around it, in the filter behind everything, my husband checked the rocks all twice, picked each up and looked under and inside, this fish is nowhere to be found. EDIT: forgot to add that the day before this disappearance he added a yellow soft coral with flowery looking like ends.

he bought another goby, same kind. the fish store owner told him that when they are younger it can sometimes be hard to get them to eat so he gave hubby one that he's had for a while and that has been eating well. the thing is he also went into hiding like the same or next day. he however does come out at night and sifts through the sand. i'm afraid he might starve tho. hubby doesn't want to feed him after lights are out because he doesn't want to overfeed the tank exept i think that may be the only time to get him to eat. i have seen the yellowbelly damsel pick on this goby. it just shot out of it's rock, picked on the goby and shot back in. and i do notice him swimming around the goby's rock all the time like he's looking for him. i guess it doesn't help that the goby picked the rock right in front of the yellowbelly's hole as his hide-out.

sorry for the lenghty post. ANY ides, advise, suggestions would be greatly appreciated. hubby is getting pretty discouraged and it's not so cheap either. we paid $80 for the pair of clown and now we've got one lonely one left :(.

please, anything that might help - we'd really appreciate it!

edit: forgot to add that he has algea bad on the sand and glass. it's like a dark brown , grey film over his sandbed some bubbles. i know the sand will turn brown during the cycle and it did but this is different.

bianca

tankanator
05-24-2007, 9:32 PM
To start the copper ban butterfly fish are hard to keep, don't know about the goby but I feel you added to many fish to soon for a new tank. I would get rid of the damsels, when I started my saltwater tank I did the same thing added damsels and regretted it finally I took them back. How often and how much water do you change? and I don't know if I saw in your post but how big is your tank? Others will chime in with more advise I've learned allot form this site good luck.

i_limantara
05-24-2007, 9:57 PM
I feel you added to many fish to soon for a new tank. I would get rid of the damsels, when I started my saltwater tank I did the same thing added damsels and regretted it finally I took them back.

i am agree... i also check my water parameter after 3 days i put a new fish into my tank before i add another again...

SHK_ATK
05-24-2007, 10:10 PM
TAKE OUT THE DAMSELS they yellowbelly and what I understand a velvet damel are really mean and mark their territory, I agree on adding to many fish all at one. SW is great but one need to have paitience. Are there any overflows where a clown could of been sucked in? I lost my true percula that way found her in the sump with a cut. Put her in the main tank but never recovered. (45 bucks down the drain....litterly) Gobys tend to hide alot I have an engineer goby and a yellow watchman goby that all they do is hide. I RARELY see the EG but the yellow tends to be more active during the AM and after lights out. I would keep an eye out on those levels since it is a new tank and be wary for amonia. Also how big is the tank and how many pounds of Live Rock do you have? Also posting the filtration method might be usefull.

biancaj
05-24-2007, 11:40 PM
thanks for the responses, guys.
to answer y'alls questions:

it's a 55g tank, it has about 35lbs of live rock (he's still planning on adding more but the fish store we go to hasn't gotten any new rocks in in a little while and he hasn't found rocks that he likes cause he wants to stack them on top of the others - and he's a bit impatient ). there is no overflow and he has a canister filter - pretty sure it's the filstar xp2.

he did frequent water changes while cycling but from what i understand the way he's doing it now is 1 week he does a water change and the next he just tops it off with ro water and so on.

he's been testing his water frequently especially more so because we can't figure the cause of the deaths out. they come out fine. even his parents checked the water ( they're still pretty new to marine tanks as well - about 8 - 9 months, but they have two flourishing tanks with only one casualty in the very beginning) and so did the fish store owner. three seperate sets of people can't figure out what's going on and it's rather disappointing :( .

i guess he did add quite a few fish in a short while. there was always a week in between tho and i admit that i talked him into the butterfly. but as long as the test were good he didn't create a mini-cycle and the water shouldn't have been the problem.

it may just be as simple as the damsels being the culprits. he is beginning to regret haven gotten them. he pretty much knew they could be territorial but i guess his mom's 2 succesful tanks (started with damsels) and the fish store owner giving him "less aggressive" damsels, he didn't expect this.

we have been wondering if something may be hiding in the rocks that's attacking them since the goby came out just before it died and the clown was just gone (and butterfly looked like he was bleeding) but he's turned every rock over twice and we haven't seen or heard anything.

his dad thinks the shrimp ate the clown. possible?

do soft corals eat fish ? ( sorry, i honestly don't know) there's a thread on this page with a coral that looks almost like his but hubby's is bright yellow but in that thread it was said to be aggressive.

also, how would he go about getting the damsels out of the tank if needed to?

thank you again for taking the time. i hope the info helped.

rockethippo
05-25-2007, 12:20 AM
You need to be very patient starting a marine. Believe me I know how hard it is! What I would do is return or put into a spare tank all remaining fish and inverts and add more live rock so that you have 1-1.5 pounds of live rock per gallon. Then let it cycle again. After it is done cycling wait another 1 week. Add your first fish. Wait ATLEAST 2 weeks and add 1 more fish, unless it is a pair. Keep adding fish until you are happy with what you have. Remeber to just take things slowly. ATLEAST 2 weeks between every fish. Hope everything goes well.

biancaj
05-25-2007, 1:32 AM
thank you again!yeah, patience is not our strong suite - his even less so. we probably should turn one of our four fw tanks into a quarantine marine or something but we don't have anywhere else to put them at the moment. the water is fine tho and he will be adding more rock...... no more fish for a while.

but now i can't contain my excitement any longer:
i just 10 minutes ago did find a hitchhiker crab coming partly out of the rock the first goby was hiding under and the clown were swimming over. it cannot be a coincidence! this has to be the fish killer. i just have no idea how to get it out of there. i don't know how i just spotted it and we didn't see it when we checked every rock twice for the clown, but i was watching the fish and there something dark was moving and i see this crableg sticking out of the rock. it's not very big and all i could tell is that it's brown with defenitly one regular crab leg and 2 that looked hairy like a spiders but that's all i could see. i tried to grab it with hubby's long tweezers or whatever they are but it was too fast (yeah, didn't expect that to work but had to try).

i really hope he'll be a bit more patient now but he really doesn't like it when i try to give him advise on his tank.

i really really appreciate all your guys responses and of course am open to more suggestion especially in regard to that crab. if anyone knows what it might be or how to get it out that wpuld just make my week!!!

thank you all!!!

rockethippo
05-25-2007, 1:42 AM
It is not necessarily the crab that is the killer. Seems like it is not a hermit. I'll give you some pics, then tell me is it any of them. By the way, hitchhikers are sure exciting! When I first saw a snial hitch hiker I was so excited lol!!
Check out these crabs
http://marinedepotlive.com/inverts--crabs.html
Heres a evil little #$^$#%#
http://marinedepotlive.com/mashst.html
If it is the above animal, use long tweezers. They will club your finger to a bloody mess (exagerating, but really they can cut you real bad).

biancaj
05-25-2007, 1:44 AM
so i went to live aquaria and looked at their crabs. it looks much like the decorative spider crab with the only difference that the one in the pic is sorta light brown and the one in our tank is drak brown. i just saw it again and it has at least four ugly hairy legs. it's got to be that one, right? this one's got to go!!!

i should be in bed - gotta be at work at 8 but how can i sleep now with that thing praying on our precious fish??? the other clown is still near it. that's been their spot since we got them :(

rockethippo
05-25-2007, 1:51 AM
If it is a decorator crab ( and you are really sure it is. Make sure it has the white hairy spots of it's legs) you may be able to return it to the store and get store credit. You don't really need a spare tank, just a big tote or container.

biancaj
05-25-2007, 2:03 AM
i'm not sure if it is or not. now that i've found it it doesn't seem shy at all. i even shone the flashlight on it. i could almost grab it! it's not really that small either compared to the pics you just linked me to. i can't understand how we didn't see it.

but yes, it has white spots on its legs - defenitly! the hair is blonde i guess....lol. again the only difference is his body is dark brown and so are his two front pincers. oh, and it isn't "decorated" - he doesn't have stuff stuck to him.

on the link you posted and live aquaria this decorative spider crab was the only hairy one to choose from and ours is defenitly hairy - it has the white spots!

rockethippo
05-25-2007, 2:05 AM
Personally I would get it it's own little tank. They can be quite interesting.

biancaj
05-25-2007, 2:18 AM
lol
thanks so much for helping out with this at this late hour :)

reading the stuff on it is interesting, especially the decorating part but honestly i'm not a spider friendly person and this crab's legs creep me out a little. and it's kinda likely it ate our baby clown :( we also already have 5 tanks and wouldn't know where to put another one. i really don't think we'll be keeping him.

again, thank you for all your help and patience :)

Bianca

darkcirca
05-25-2007, 9:21 AM
Give your goby some time. I have a diamond goby, he's a sandsifter as well. When we first got him he'd hide. He was terrified of our tang as well, as Bubbles is very curious and investigates newcomers, so that sent the goby hiding longer. Eventually he lightened up, dug holes under EVERY rock in the tank, making sand mounds everywhere too. He swims about now, only after I believe 2+ months.

Just wait, if he makes it, they are such funny fish. If a crab or snail goes down in his main hole, he'll bring them back out and spit them out. If they do it again he'll bring them farther, and so on. The nassarius snails seem to find it amusing because they will keep doing it until he takes them all the way to the back of the tank.

Anyway, give the goby time and just watch him. Mine loves freeze dried krill and mysis shrimp. He's not keen on flakes, but will eat them. Try things like that. Some people say they need a maturer sand bed as they eat things from it, but out tank wasn't that old when we got him and he's done great.

biancaj
05-29-2007, 10:57 PM
sorry to take so long to respond again.

the crab actually turned out to just be a manthrix crab or what they're called. matched the pic on bluezoo. so i guess it wasn't a dangerous crab after all and didn't nearly look as creepy as when i saw it at night sticking it's pincer out. hubby and his dad took the rock out completely and tried to squirt the crab out but when that didn't work they used those long tweezers. the crab didn't make it. i feel kinda bad but i think it's for the best.

so the deaths might just have been a coincidence tho i still believe it probably had something to do with it. seems strange that two of the fish that were residing above and below that very rock would disappear/die and then we see this crab.

anyhow, the goby is doing awesome now. actually started the day the crab got removed. could just be a coincidence again, but again, i don't think so. goby would hide all day under a rock on the right side of the tank, now it's out and about redecorating mostly on the left side of the tank where the crab used to be. i actually did see him pick up a crab and toss it into a hole in the rock. it was so adorable!i love to watch that goby :). he most likely also just needed some time to adjust and now he's doing very well as are the other four fish in the tank.

the clown is trying so hard to host this coral but it keeps closing up whenever he brushes against it. well, maybe we'll find one that likes him as well.

hubby got another good seized rock friday and some more snails and crabs but no fish. he's only got 10lbs left to reach lbs/gl. we haven't seen anything living in the new rock yet so that's a good thing.

so that's that. witha little luck maybe we can get this tank to turn into something really amazing :)

thanks guys :)

bianca