75g FO setup (newbie to marine)

[wobble]

After doing alot of searching on this forum and others, I'm ready to start my project. I don't want to make any huge mistakes, so could the guru's please let me know if this will work?

I've been keeping FW fish for about 20 years. I'm converting my 75g African cichlid tank into a marine FO tank. Here's what it has:

Rena xp3 canister filter
Aquaclear 500 HOB filter
Emperor 400 HOB filter

I am going to empty the tank, clean filters, remove sand. Then purchase new sand, additional lighting, and a protein skimmer. (Coralife CD-22940).

I also thought about adding a couple maxi-jets to create more current. But since I'm already turning over 1250gph with just filters, I'm not sure this will be necessary.

As far as cycling, I'm not sure my wife would tolerate the smell of a rotting shrimp. I will probably end up using the ammonia method or putting about 25lb of live rock and let it cycle with that. Although I'm not sure I want live rock at all since it looks like a pain to cure. If I purchase live rock from a tank at my LFS, do I still need to cure it?

I have a question regarding water changes....With my African tanks (I have 4), I do 50% weekly. I know it's probably overkill, but they are all overcrowded to control aggression and I don't want water quality issues. What is a good amount to do weekly on the 75g marine tank I am setting up?

Any suggestions on substrate? I have sand in all my tanks, so I prefer that. All of them have pool filter sand, which is a tannish color. I was thinking a white sand?

As far as fish I'm interested in.....

Butterfly fish
Blennies
Gobies
Ocellaris Clownfish
Shrimp
Hermit Crabs
Snails
Starfish
Spotted Mandarin
Dwarf Lion - Too aggressive?

I will have plenty of rockwork in for hiding places.

Sorry I have so many questions, but I wanted to cover everything. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. This is my first marine tank and I don't want it to be a disaster.

[SigPiPup]

I'll try to answer as much as I can, but I am relatively new to this as well. Not so much new as out of practice.

There are several different filtration methods ranging from HOBs to just Live Rock and Live Sand. Someone else will have to speak up on that point as alot has changed over the years. Personally I have used Trickle Filtration and just Live Rock and Live Sand. The LR/LS method has worked the best for me (10 gallon nano). Very easy. The Trickle I had set up a decade ago worked as well but I have been reading that this isn't the preferred method anymore.

As far as LR and cycling go, there are many different methods and opinions. From what I understand from other posts, you can buy uncured LR and stick it in a new tank for cycling purposes. Once the cycle is done, the LR will be cured. If you were to purchase more LR after cycling, then it would be necessary to cure it prior to adding it to the established aquarium.

Water changes. I've heard 10% every week or 20% every other week. Everybody does something different. I suppose it would all depend on your water testing results.

Substrate. Sand is the substrate of choice for most marine aquariums...from what I've read. Stay away from Crushed Coral. Aragonite Sand is the way to go.

As far as your fish selection goes....I haven't even filled my big tank yet so I'm not worrying about livestock yet. I have a good idea what I want and am planning the tank accordingly.

I hope everything goes well with your set-up. I'm sorry for not being more definitive in my answers. If anything, my post has at least bumped your questions to the top of the list :)

[wobble]

Thanks for the response. It seems as though recently the live rock thing has taken off. It's still possible to have a FO tank, right? If I decide not to use live rock at all, will my setup be ok the way it is? This would obviously mean I would have to stay on top of filter cleaning to keep nitrates down.

I have two friends who I've got some info from. One has a 55g FO setup he's had for about 5 years with only an xp3 as a filter. The other friend had a reef setup for 4 years and recently got out of it because of the time and cost involved. I got conflicting info from these two sources, so I thought I'd come here since there are is alot of knowledge to be found.

Thanks again.

[Star_Rider]

you can do FO with normal cannister filtration or sump or whatever filter you choose.
the filter will be the bio filter in this case. like in FW you monitor the nitrates and do water changes to keep those in check.
you will cycle the tank in a similar fashion to the fw set up..and it takes about as long.

I went with FOWLR to begin with..then decided to try some softies.

I like the LR as to cycle all I had to do was place uncured LR in the tank(after some prep) and let it run..the organisms that died on the LR created the ammoia..pretty much you drop in the rock and wait..took only a few short weeks and a water change.

[wobble]

I've always cycled FW tanks by using seeded filters and/or substrate from another tank. I can't remember the last time I had to cycle a tank from scratch, so this is new to me.

Sounds like live rock is the easiest way to cycle my tank. How much will I need to do this in my 75g?

[Reefscape]

the general guideine for live rock ammounts in the tank is 1 - 1.5lbs of live rock per gallon of tank water....

Niko

[Star_Rider]

how much depends on the LR

I have 150# in my 110 and it is fairly dense so the rock pile isn't as big as I would like.
but my wife likes it.

you can also cycle with a shrimp(stinks to high heaven) usually recommended to place the shrimp in a nylon fine mesh bag(pantyhose material)
toss it in an wait..

the LR will stink some to if you chose the uncured lr method..but my wife thought the whole time it smelled like the ocean. she loves the Ocean.

[wobble]

Is that guideline for those who want to use live rock exclusively as their filtration? Is that much live rock necessary to cycle a tank that has other filters?

[Reefscape]

yes it is....if all you want to do is cycle the tank, then just use the shrimp/prawn method mentioned above. Of course, this is assuming that you have other ways of filtration attached to the tank, like a cannister filter..

Niko

[SHK_ATK]

As far as LR and cycling go, there are many different methods and opinions. From what I understand from other posts, you can buy uncured LR and stick it in a new tank for cycling purposes. Once the cycle is done, the LR will be cured.

Not always if you use Base rock it can take a REALLY LONG time for the tank to get anywhere near cycled, Best bet is you use LR that is CURED from the start. You could SEED the LR that is UNCURED or that is HALFWAY cured w/ CURED LR Thus make all the rock LR that is cured. But as always the more Base/Uncured LR you have the longer it will take.


I've always cycled FW tanks by using seeded filters and/or substrate from another tank. I can't remember the last time I had to cycle a tank from scratch, so this is new to me.

Sounds like live rock is the easiest way to cycle my tank. How much will I need to do this in my 75g?

You can use other media to help cycle a tank faster. If you get some LR from your buddies reef or FOWLR tank or Sand for that matter. The cycling process will be shorten.

Also if you dont want to buy that much LR or dont want LR at all. I would really suggest having LR in every filter media. Either have some LR rubble (pieces of LR) in the canister filter and the HOB filters. anywhere that there is a high water flow area. Aragonite sand as someone mentioned will sufice if you want to do white sand you can. I saw a bag of white sand at petco. that was maybe 10lbs that was around 12-20 bucks Way too much IMO. But hey if you want to spend the $$ for white sand by all means go ahead. It will eventually turn into LS. ALso there are bags of sand that are "LS" that cost around 40-50 bucks a bag Its suppost to cycle the tank faster as it has benificial bacterial in it I wouldnt spend the money on it either as LS will be created from the seeding of LR in the tank. Stay away from pool filter/play sand as it has silica (bad for fish) and some have rougher (sp) grain that can damage fish like gobies, ect ect. again Bad for fish. Lastly not to sure about a dwarf lion with the rest of the other stock maybe someone else can chime in on this one. Im thinking it would be fine...:huh:

[wobble]

Thanks for the replies. It really sounds like LR is the way to go. I guess I'll just get some then. Cost is always an issue, but I don't want to do this twice. If LR will make this easier, then I'll get LR.

So.....I should purchase LR and put it in the tank. I would think 50lbs or so would be enough to cycle. I'll also add 50-75lbs of base rock. I just don't want my tank completely filled with rocks. (Although it is filled with rocks almost all the way to the top of the tank now for my Malawi cichlids) I'll run that with all filters and a skimmer until cycled. That sound ok?

As far as the white sand goes, I mainly wanted something different than my other tanks. I'm not a fan of dark colored sand, so I thought white would be the ticket. I'm not really set on anything.

Why do you say silica sand is bad for fish? I have PFS in all my tanks, which is silica based and don't have any problems. Actually, most sand I find is silica based. I thought the only disadvantage of silica sand was the brown algae it grows for awhile. What do most people use for sand in their marine tanks?

[SHK_ATK]

Thanks for the replies. It really sounds like LR is the way to go. I guess I'll just get some then. Cost is always an issue, but I don't want to do this twice. If LR will make this easier, then I'll get LR.

So.....I should purchase LR and put it in the tank. I would think 50lbs or so would be enough to cycle. I'll also add 50-75lbs of base rock. I just don't want my tank completely filled with rocks. (Although it is filled with rocks almost all the way to the top of the tank now for my Malawi cichlids) I'll run that with all filters and a skimmer until cycled. That sound ok?

As far as the white sand goes, I mainly wanted something different than my other tanks. I'm not a fan of dark colored sand, so I thought white would be the ticket. I'm not really set on anything.

Why do you say silica sand is bad for fish? I have PFS in all my tanks, which is silica based and don't have any problems. Actually, most sand I find is silica based. I thought the only disadvantage of silica sand was the brown algae it grows for awhile. What do most people use for sand in their marine tanks?

LR to Base rock ratio should be higher. 60-70% LR would be better w/ 30-40% base rock . You typically dont want the LR to BS even as it will take well over a year for the Base Rock to seed. Talk about Patience. Silica in a SW tank will typically lead to increased diatom growth, I ment to say that silica base sand may or may not dissolve into the water column as carbonate based sand if it does dissolve in your aquarium, it will increase your alk, which buffers your water preventing pH swings. but then again whether or not enough dissolves to make a difference?? who really knows.:huh:

The Southdown Tropical Play Sand is known to be carbonate based but I only use Aragonite sand. Little $$$ but I dont have to worry about any PH swings or something going arey (sp) and wondering and testing to figure out what caused fish deaths, tank crashes, algae bloom. ect ect.

[wobble]

Ok, I took the advice and bought some cured live rock. I have 75lbs of it. I have it in a large plastic tub with a powerjet and a heater at 80F. I am setting up my 75g tank in the morning. Can I add the rock immediately, or do I wait until it's cycled with the raw shrimp? If I have to wait until cycled, will the live rock be ok in the plastic tub since it's already cured?

Thanks in advance.

[Reefscape]

Yes, get "all" the rock in there from the start. This, along with a shrimp/prawn wrapped in a mesh bag or pantyhose with generate a good ammonia source and the cycle will start for you..

Niko