Suggestions for a new 55G?

[Hooked Newbie]

Howdy folks! I'm going to start a new 55G in the next coupla weeks and was looking for equipment advice. It will be a standard 55. I really messed up my 29G (didn't know anything about cycling), but it's headed in the right direction and I'm really efficient at water changes! lol

So, if you knew now what you knew then and were going to start a 55 what equipment (filter, media, substrate, etc.) would you go for? Cost is going to be considered, but not too big of an obstacle.

The tank will be a planted FW community tank, the only thing I'm set on is an Angelfish (I love the personality). Also my Pleco will be transferred eventually. Beyond that I'm not sure of the mix, but I'm thinking Mollies, Tetras, etc. Open to suggestions on stocking as well, but I want to let it cycle good (for as long as necessary) first.

[zmorrow]

You need to get an under gravel filter for your bio filtration, powered by at least 1 power head per plate. In my 55 I have 2 plates with a powerhead, and a bubble tube on each. Then for my mechanical filtration I have a 30-60 silent filter, you can use bio sponge, and carbon filter media, ethier is ok. A combonation is best. Then caves are neccessary. I make mine out of pvp with rocks glued on, hot glue works, just make sure it's dry(not my idea, rather another buddy's) but it works. You can email me at zmorrow@comcast.net if you have any questions, let me know how it goes.

[chaibill]

maybe 8 odessa barbs 8 corydoris 2 angels AC110 smooth grael and sand in some spots

[Hooked Newbie]

Hi. Thanks for the info and offering to help! I do have one question about both my upcoming 55G and my current 29G. How deep should the substrate typically be? With & w/o a UGF? (My current tank doesn't have one).

[kasslloyd]

I wouldn't use a UGF... probably ever, and definitely not in a larger tank that's planted.

Get a decent HOB with a bio wheel, or if your planning on added supplemental CO2 for the plants get a can filter.

I'd recommend a Rena FilStar xP2 (~$70 from PetSmart) an In-Line 200watt heater from Hydor (~$50 from Foster & Smith) and I'd go with about 4 bags of Flourite (~$80 from Foster & Smith) or 3-4 bags of Eco-Complete.

That setup would be ideal if you want to expand with better lights and CO2 some day (probably another $100 for DYI lights or $300 or so for commercial solution, and another $250 or so to $450+ for a co2 bottled system).

If your more on a budget I'd get a Marineland Penguin 350 or Emperor 400 HOB bio-wheel filter (they're ~$50) a decent 200watt heater (like a Visi-Therm which are ~$20), and maybe 1 bag of Flourite maybe also mix in 55oz of Laterite and then probably 50lbs. of regular cheap aquarium gravel.

[kasslloyd]

Hi. Thanks for the info and offering to help! I do have one question about both my upcoming 55G and my current 29G. How deep should the substrate typically be? With & w/o a UGF? (My current tank doesn't have one).

substrate exists only for your pleasure in a non-planted tank, it's far more healthy for fish to not have any substrate and just have a empty bare bottom (with some exceptions, some fish actually use/need it for breeding or what have you, but most don't). Or if you have plants you need the substrate, and it should probably be 2-3" thick.

[Rbishop]

kasslloyd (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/member.php?u=72407) -- Well, I would disagree on the lack of substrate. I think most fish prefer it, since it seems pretty common, and some natural tendencies are displayed when it is available.

I would like to see the documentation that would show a substrate as unhealthy, if you can provide it.

I also recommend a UGF, but in the Reverse mode, RUFG. I use them in all my tanks, planted and not planted, even in the 125's. What is your reasoning on not using them?

[kasslloyd]

kasslloyd (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/member.php?u=72407) -- Well, I would disagree on the lack of substrate. I think most fish prefer it, since it seems pretty common, and some natural tendencies are displayed when it is available.

I would like to see the documentation that would show a substrate as unhealthy, if you can provide it.

I also recommend a UGF, but in the Reverse mode, RUFG. I use them in all my tanks, planted and not planted, even in the 125's. What is your reasoning on not using them?

From what I've read (and I've been doing LOTS of reading and researching on like 5 forums and like such in the past few months in preparation for my heavily planted co2 enriched 55gal tank) is that generally people feel an UGF can get clogged or fouled by plant roots, specifically ones with larger root systems, are more likely to cause "dead spots" in the UGF.

I've not read much about RUGF setups and plants, or RUGF's at all...

The general consensus for planted tanks on forums that are devoted to them is that a can filter works best.. *shrug* Just stating what I feel is the "common" response for a planted tank, which the OP stated he wanted to setup.

As for no gravel it's been stated that it's easier to keep clean therefore less decomposing organic matter to foul the water or create more bioload. Generally in tanks that are not "display" (breeding, growout, etc..) people choose not to have any substrate for that purpose alone. Easier to keep clean and such, which in theory creates a healthier environment.

In a tank without a UGF (or RUGF) the gravel bed isnt oxygenated and anarobic bacteria have a better chance of establishing there, which I belive is a bad thing for a tank. Many resources state that if you have gravel without plants to have just enough to cover the bottom, not a thick bed. But with UGF (or RUGF) the gravel is oxygenated so it is healthier...

[Hooked Newbie]

OK, I'm sorry if this sounds ignorant. The whole UGF thing is still a mystery to me (I bought one, but returned it after reading online that nly very experienced keepers should use them) and I have NO clue about reverse mode? Would you mind educating a newbie?

[kasslloyd]

OK, I'm sorry if this sounds ignorant. The whole UGF thing is still a mystery to me (I bought one, but returned it after reading online that nly very experienced keepers should use them) and I have NO clue about reverse mode? Would you mind educating a newbie?

http://www.bestfish.com/ug.html

Just a quick refernece I turned up talking about UGF's

Generally a typical UGF setup you have a plate that sits below the gravel bed and a lifter bar for the plate. Using either a power head or air bubbles you create a suction on the lifter bar (tube) that sucks water through the gravel bed. The gravel bed is effectively turned into a large bio filter.

For a RUGF reverse setup you instead of sucking water through the bed you pump water through it. Ssimilar concept but operates a bit differently.

[Rbishop]

The reverse mode of a UGF pushes water down the standpipes, under the plates and up thru the substrate. This pushes debri up into the water column to be removed by other power filter mechanical means. Whether an UGF or RUGF, you are utilizing the entire substrate as a biological filter.

I have yet to see any UGF or RUGF get "clogged" by plant roots. It is commonly stated that it happens, but I have never experienced it in 30 yrs or known anyone who runs the same set ups to have an issue. If dead spots are created, they do not appear to effect the balance of my tanks.

Just because a bare botttom tank is "easier" to keep clean, doesn't mean it is healthier as you stated in the previous post. I would disagree that "generally" people keep bare bottom tanks if they are not for display. When maintaining fish that require extreme clean water conditions, that may be true or if fry tanks, I would also concur. A tank with substrate just requires a routine maintenance regieme and it will be as healthy as any bare bottom tank, and with a more dispersed biological filter area, to minmize any chance of a mini cycle based on filter cleaning.

[kasslloyd]

The reverse mode of a UGF pushes water down the standpipes, under the plates and up thru the substrate. This pushes debri up into the water column to be removed by other power filter mechanical means. Whether an UGF or RUGF, you are utilizing the entire substrate as a biological filter.

I have yet to see any UGF or RUGF get "clogged" by plant roots. It is commonly stated that it happens, but I have never experienced it in 30 yrs or known anyone who runs the same set ups to have an issue. If dead spots are created, they do not appear to effect the balance of my tanks.

Just because a bare botttom tank is "easier" to keep clean, doesn't mean it is healthier as you stated in the previous post. I would disagree that "generally" people keep bare bottom tanks if they are not for display. When maintaining fish that require extreme clean water conditions, that may be true or if fry tanks, I would also concur. A tank with substrate just requires a routine maintenance regieme and it will be as healthy as any bare bottom tank, and with a more dispersed biological filter area, to minmize any chance of a mini cycle based on filter cleaning.

Hope I didn't step on anyones toes, I just wanted to give what I thought to be the "common" equipment advice for a 55gal planted tank. I'm definitely not an expert in the merits of UGF/RUGF systems, just know what I've read.

As for the whole gravel health thing, maybe what I've read is wrong, I just thought the theory was fairly sound. ;-)

as for my 55gal tank I'm going with what I suggested in my first post, a xP2 can filter and in-line co2 reactor (home made) and a Hydor in-line heater and a under-gravel heating cable. From what I've read this setup would work great for what I plan on (huge forest of plants!:drool:)

[Rbishop]

No problem, no toes stepped on! Just exchanging ideas and always looking for new info on things I haven't run across. I realize most folks think UGF old school and not compatible with plants. There loss. Glad to have you here and giving your input!

[musho3210]

Hmm there is a lot of debateable things here, go the safe way that is rairly debated over, get Eco complete or flourite as gravel, no UGF or RUGF, get a rena or an ehiem canister if you have the money, if not go with an aquaclear HOB or an emperor HOB. Use visi-therm stealths or ehiem jagers, buy a pressurized CO2 system (less of a pain in the butt, more expensive than DIY) Buy either PC or T5 lighting, 150-200 watts is good with your CO2 system, buy the forest of plants, cycle (wont take long with all these plants) stock with fish. There, nice and easy and hopefully not debateable.

Still gonna need food, syphon, fertilizers, water treatment etc.

[Rbishop]

IF you go planted, I recommend RUGF. Better nutrient flow to the root systems.

[Hooked Newbie]

I hate AND love that I created this debate. I am learning so much just from reading and collecting your opinions! Keep it coming! So far what I have sort of settled on is...

XP3 or a Fluval 305 filter, 250W Marineland Stealth Heater, Eco complete...

Still intimidated by the UGF / RUGF and clueless on the CO2 systems. Luckily, I'm not in a rush so I can absorb as much info as I can get before I decide.

[Marinemom]

It sounds like you are getting it togather for your new 55 gallon setup. I applaud you for doing your research first. A word about the co2 system. Maybe try going with some lower light plants first just to get your feet wet so to speak which will not require a co2 pressurized system or even one that is a do it yourself setup. There are plenty of plants to choose from that do not usually require co2 such as anubias, java fern, java moss, vals, and many forms of crypts. You can have an amazingly beautiful planted display without co2 injection. This will leave it open so that down the road you can always add the co2 and some other plants that require more lighting.

Just some thoughts.

Marinemom

[lucid_boy]

i have the UGF setup in my 10 gal and just messing around I lowered the airline tubes (it was before I had put airstones on the ends) and to my dismay all the crud from the bottom started coming loose from the substrate!
this was way back on the 3rd or 4th day that I had this 10gal tank.
(it was given to me that it why it had so much crud, but I only had it 3 days)

anyway, if I were to do that every once in a while wouldn't it help to clean the tank. and I also am setting up a 55gal tank and I have an UGF that I either can use or leave out of the setup. I know I could use it with a powerhead, but how much else would I need to invest to have a basic RUGF setup?

[Hooked Newbie]

I'll definitely leave this up to rb to answer, but with everyday that goes by, the RUGF setup makes more sense to me. From what I understand (and I am honestly pretty much clueless), the RUGF will work on the output of a canister type filter system or can work with a seperate powerhead and basically allows for an upward flow of water through the substrate (and therefore a clearing of the substrate). rb help me out here...! :O)

MM- TY for the advice, I'm taking it with good results so far!

[newsom00]

maybe 8 odessa barbs 8 corydoris 2 angels AC110 smooth grael and sand in some spots
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that sounds like a good stock