View Full Version : Starting a SW tank, some good advice
JasonA
05-23-2003, 12:58 PM
Hi guys, just found this great place. Looks to be a great source of info and haven't stopped reading on here for almost 2 hrs. now !!
I have a couple of questions reg. my new SW tank I'm about to setup. First, my dad has always been a SW lover and ever since I can remember, he's had them, but he's always used undergravel filtration and that's it. Knowing that most of my LFS's have said that it's "old school" to do so and not as stable as the new systems, I've purchased a few things.. here's my setup list.
40g glass tank with stand, but no big hood, just a simple 36" long single NO tube setup for lighting.
1 ViaAqua 263gph Canister filter with bio media and a charcoal unit.
1 ViaAqua Skimmer with the UV setup.
1 Rio 200 and 1 Rio600 for circulation
1 150w Titanium heater.
about 50lbs of #5 coral and about 20lbs. of live sand.
40lbs. of lace-rock to use as a base to build my little empire of enimees and some live coral etc..
enough RO and Instant Ocean to set it all up..
From the above setup, you probably guess what my 2 questions are going to be.. LIGHTING and FILTRATION..
FILTRATION: I have enough GPH, but my question is, out of the 4 LFS, 2 told me not to use the charcoal section, and 2 told me to use the charcoal section.
My thoughts were that I've heard that charcoal takes out the hard minerals but also the trace elements as well..2 said it's not needed...2 said yes...
What do you guys think about using the charcoal all the time?
LIGHTING:Yes, my lighting sucks, just 1 T8 or T12 bulb... so I want to go PC on my setup... I don't mind cutting some wood and making a simple hood and since I'm a computer/electronics engineer, I don't mind doing a DIY setup..but my question is this..
How much should I use and where to buy??? 3 of the LFS's said to use 2x55's and 1lfs said to use 4x36 units !!!
The only place I could find for DIY units is.. http://www.ahsupply.com/
Are their prices resonable ???
Thanks for all your help everyone.
Jason
mogurnda
05-23-2003, 1:37 PM
It would help to know what you want in the tank. What kind of corals are you interested in? 110-150W of light will be enough for LPS and softies, but you'll probably want to think about metal halide for SPS, anemones and clams. You really have to decide what you want to keep, and build your lighting around it. I like A.H. supply, their DIY kits are easy to use and a pretty good deal. Others may have other opinions.
Carbon is a subject for endless debate. I don't use it, lots of people do. The main concern is to get a high-quality carbon that won't leach phosphate. The main filtration for your tank will be the live rock and your skimmer. Lace rock isn't live, is it? You need live rock.
JasonA
05-23-2003, 2:46 PM
It'll be mostly fish, but a few anemones and some smaller live rocks and coral...
My dad who's always had 4+ big anemones in his 70g tank has only used standard NO 50/50 or 10K+ bulbs.. None of this new fancy light stuff that's out there now and his tank seems to do great... but he has no coral or live rock except for a few small pieces of Fiji rock..
As for the charcoal, again, it was a 50/50 tie. If I use it mainly for fish and even just a few live rocks/corals here and there, that's probably not enough to filter the water effectivly from what I'm told so use it!!!
This tank is just me getting starting into this whole reef/live rock/coral thingy....
For now, I just want a nice bright tank, but 4x36 seems like alot of heat for this size...
Anywho...thanks for all your help..always looking for advice.
Jason
First off, Welcome to AC! We pride ourselves on good info and good flames, so don't take anything personally =)
"40g glass tank with stand, but no big hood, just a simple 36" long single NO tube setup for lighting. "
A decent tank, not huge, but not tiny. That light will suffice if you just want fish.
"1 ViaAqua 263gph Canister filter with bio media and a charcoal unit."
Still got the reciept? Take it back and spend that $$$ on some liverock. Ya don't need this item...
"1 ViaAqua Skimmer with the UV setup."
I'm not familiar with this one, got a link for us? The UV sterilizer is a no-no if you plan to keep corals. It will kill off the food that they filter feed.
"1 Rio 200 and 1 Rio600 for circulation"
Again, still got the reciept? Rio powerheads are notorious for killing off tanks when they overheat. They release an oily junk and yer lucky if anything survives. The powerheads of choice are Maxi-Jets and Aquaclears.. Bout the same $$$ too..
"1 150w Titanium heater."
Good choice, glass is SO easily crushed by liverock... This is a keeper!
"about 50lbs of #5 coral and about 20lbs. of live sand."
Define "#5 coral" for me? The normal recipe is to go to Home Depot, grab a couple bags of playsand (Southdown or Old Castle if you can get it, anything else that is sand box safe if you cant...) and mix about 20-30% livesand in with it. If you coral is actually crush coral, yer gonna wanna go ahead and remove that and start over. Crushed coral will not work for creating anaerobic areas for nitrate consumption and will be a long term headache. Yer better off with the DSB (deep sand bed) and whatever you gotta do to get it going is gonna be worth it.
"40lbs. of lace-rock to use as a base to build my little empire of enimees and some live coral etc.."
Lace rock is good base rock, but you also need enough liverock to seed it with. Once you put the liverock in there, the coralline will start migrating to the lace rock and soon, it will all be nice and purple.
"enough RO and Instant Ocean to set it all up.."
mmmmmm my favorite Kool-Aid mixture =)
"FILTRATION: I have enough GPH, but my question is, out of the 4 LFS, 2 told me not to use the charcoal section, and 2 told me to use the charcoal section.
My thoughts were that I've heard that charcoal takes out the hard minerals but also the trace elements as well..2 said it's not needed...2 said yes... What do you guys think about using the charcoal all the time?"
Well, once you return that canister, this wont be a problem =) However, to avoid being a smarty pants, the simple answer is both are right. I personally have a simple little Aquaclear 200 on my 55g that I run carbon in as needed. If my water looks a bit icky, drop in the bag and voila, clear water. Remove it, and yer done.
"LIGHTING:Yes, my lighting sucks, just 1 T8 or T12 bulb... so I want to go PC on my setup... I don't mind cutting some wood and making a simple hood and since I'm a electronics engineer, I don't mind doing a DIY setup..but my question is this..
How much should I use and where to buy??? 3 of the LFS's said to use 2x55's and 1lfs said to use 4x36 units !!!
The only place I could find for DIY units is.. http://www.ahsupply.com/
Are their prices resonable ???"
I'm personally a huge fan of Powerquad lighting from Custom Sealife. You can get a 2x96 kit that has everything you need except the enclosure for $219 at Big Al's.. I've got this on my 55 and I'll never go back to halides again.
Oh and as for those anemones..... Yer about 6 months to a year from being ready to even think about em. They require stable water conditions and a dilligent keeper, and both those take time to mature. Welcome aboard ;)
mogurnda
05-23-2003, 3:31 PM
Wish I'd said it so clearly. I completely agree about the canister and UV, and about waiting for anemones.
I hope the tone wasn't too harsh. I tend to write in haste, since I'm at work.
JasonA
05-23-2003, 3:36 PM
WOW Corax !!!! That was a mouth full !!! but very informative !!!
To clearify, let me restate a few things, the tank/stand/lights, the canister and the powerheads were given to me by a friend who was moving and just wanted to get rid of it...
So really, the only thing I've bought is the Skimmer which most people/lfs say is one of the best for a hang on unit....
As for the Canister unit, I figure it's just another 265+gph of water moving around and if things get cloudy looking, I can just pop in the charcoal unit.
As for the base.. I just bought a 50# bag of #5 crushed coral..it's 1 step bigger then the super fine stuff you see in the bottom of reef systems... However, from what you've said, I've never seen a tank with only a sand base:confused: . Every lfs that's i've walked into always has a "white" coral base....maybe I'm missing something here but I've not opened the bag yet....but I also don't want a brown looking base also..
As for the live rock, how long do I wait after until I do the "Koolaid" mix? A day or two or until the water if mixxed and not clowdy anymore ??
Thanks for all the input..there's a BigAl's in Simi that I might go visit today;)
Jason
"WOW Corax !!!! That was a mouth full !!! but very informative !!!"
I try =)
"To clearify, let me restate a few things, the tank/stand/lights, the canister and the powerheads were given to me by a friend who was moving and just wanted to get rid of it..."
Ok good, I hate to see people wasting $$$ on what some LFS pushes down their throats..
"So really, the only thing I've bought is the Skimmer which most people/lfs say is one of the best for a hang on unit...."
The best thing going for a hang on skimmer is the AquaC Remora or the CPR Backpack. I've never head of the one you mentioned, but that doesn't mean it won't work for ya.. Got any more info on it? I'd love to get edumacated =)
"As for the Canister unit, I figure it's just another 265+gph of water moving around and if things get cloudy looking, I can just pop in the charcoal unit.
Good way to look at it. Most people that have them left over from FW tanks just run em empty for added circulation.
As for the base.. I just bought a 50# bag of #5 crushed coral..it's 1 step bigger then the super fine stuff you see in the bottom of reef systems... However, from what you've said, I've never seen a tank with only a sand base:confused: . Every lfs that's i've walked into always has a "white" coral base....maybe I'm missing something here but I've not opened the bag yet....but I also don't want a brown looking base also..
Play sand is about the consitency of plain old white sugar with a white-yellow tint to it. That is what ya want and it only costs about $4 a bag at Home Depot. If you paid more than that, take it back ;) I personally would take it back and get the play sand which people KNOW is proper..
"As for the live rock, how long do I wait after until I do the "Koolaid" mix? A day or two or until the water if mixxed and not clowdy anymore ??
Ok, I'm gonna go step by step for ya.
[list=1]
Locate tank and stand where you want em (I assume you've tested the tank for leaks outside, right?)
Pour about a 1" layer of dry sand (or #5 coral if you decide it will work for you. ) in the tank, smooth it out.
Place your lace rock as you see fit
Pour your remaining dry sand in and smooth it around the rocks. This is to provide a good solid base for your rock structures. Get it right the first time cuz it won't move... ;)
Fill the tank with RO water.
Turn on the powerheads and let it run for a few days.
Test your salinity, hoping for a 1.022 - 1.024 reading. Adjust accordingly..
Let it run for 2 days, testing occasionaly until it is perfect for a couple days.
Throw in 1-2 large cocktail shrimp.
Check your your ammonia after about a week. It should max out your test kit and yer tank will probably smell like a bad seafood counter. This is normal and it should go away after 3-4 days. Glade plugins help =)
Once your ammonia and nitrite both return to zero, you can safely add the livesand and liverock. Some people suggest cylcing with these in the tank, and that's ok, but anything you pay a premium price for on the liverock is probably going to be burned to a crisp by that ammonia. Save the good stuff till yer cycled.
Get some fish! What's a fish tank without, well, FISH? =) The reward for being so patient...
[/list=1]
Sorry for the delay, now on to you other questions...
JasonA
05-23-2003, 4:21 PM
I know that you'll edit the post when you get home but I guess a couple of more things to consider..
1.Should I put anymore then 10lbs. of live sand I have waiting right now??? I'll probably take back the coral, and spend the $35 on a few large pieces of live rock also..
2. Once I get the play sand from Lowe's/Home Depot, do I need to wash it first to get any dust off it or is it good to go??
I will go out on a limb and say this is the first time I've heard Play sand being used instead of coral, but as long as it's white, it's cool with me...
just more $$$ to spend on lighting;)
"1.Should I put anymore then 10lbs. of live sand I have waiting right now??? I'll probably take back the coral, and spend the $35 on a few large pieces of live rock also.."
The more liverock you can add to the tank, the more quickly it will mature and become stable. Try to get liverock and livesand from several different sources, for more bio-diversity.
"2. Once I get the play sand from Lowe's/Home Depot, do I need to wash it first to get any dust off it or is it good to go??"
Nope, put it in as is. Those varied particle sizes (dust, if you will) are good for the micro-environment you are trying to create.
Before you take that coral back, give us an exact product name? A lot of times, newbie types don't realize they are calling a product one thing, and its really sumthin else. That might actually be great for your tank, but it sounds to me like crushed coral.
"I will go out on a limb and say this is the first time I've heard Play sand being used instead of coral, but as long as it's white, it's cool with me...
Most everyone on this board uses it, as does Aqualink, Reef Central.. Southdown is the same stuff you get at the LFS for $40/bag, only with a differnt label and for $4/bag. Southdown is the holy grail of sand for us marine nerds, and unless yer from the North-East, you'll probably be using silica sand like the rest of us, myself included.. Nothing wrong with silica, it just has no buffering advantages like Southdown which is an aragonite (calcium) based sand.
"just more $$$ to spend on lighting ;)"
You'll need it, oh I promise you you'll need it ;)
JasonA
05-23-2003, 5:45 PM
The coral has no name on it..just a white 50# bag..... all it is...is just crushed coral....I'll take it back later on and stop by and get the play sand...
So only after the big SPIKE, should I add the live rock and sand ???
I'm also gonna go check out Big Al's and see their lighting selection..
Thanks again,
jason
JasonA
05-23-2003, 6:09 PM
just one more question...the of the LFS said to use argonite for the bottom, then live sand on top...
Any thoughts on that or are they just trying to get the $44/bag out of me?
Thanks
That's exactly what the playsand is for. If you can indeed find Southdown or Old Castle, then you have aragonite sand, for $4.00 per bag. Otherwise, the only option is to pay the $40 per bag to the lfs to get aragonite... Aragonite = Southdown, and Southdown = Aragonite... (Southdown and Old Castle are the same product, differnt retailers...)
However, silica based play sand is an absolutely acceptable alternative to aragonite.
oh and after the ammonia spike, watch for the same kinda of spike in your nitrites. You'll see nitrates initially also (after the ammo and trite spikes since it is the end product...), but as your DSB matures, it will process the nitrates into nitrogen gases and bubble out of the tank harmlessly.
JasonA
05-23-2003, 9:02 PM
cool...thanks for all the info...
UPDATE: Just got back from my little trip..Took the $35 bag of coral back and got a $5 bag of Aragonite from the local cement shop...they had every type of sand imaginable but that's what I got..
I also got 2 more pieces of live rock, and another 10lbs of live sand.. also got a maxi-jet head with the variable diverter...it's the 800 so that's more then enough along with the canister filter..
For now, I got a 40w 50/50 bulb... didn't get a chance to run over to Big Al's but I'm gonna order the 4x36 kit from AH and build a nice little hood for the lights...
I'm gonna start getting it ready soon...any other last thoughts?
Thanks,
Jason
"UPDATE: Just got back from my little trip..Took the $35 bag of coral back and got a $5 bag of Aragonite from the local cement shop...they had every type of sand imaginable but that's what I got.."
Woah there, be careful what kind of sand you grab. You only want sterilized, sand box safe, play sand. What brand is it?
"I also got 2 more pieces of live rock, and another 10lbs of live sand.. also got a maxi-jet head with the variable diverter...it's the 800 so that's more then enough along with the canister filter.."
Where are you keeping the liverock? You shouldn't have it until after the cycle.
"I'm gonna start getting it ready soon...any other last thoughts?"
Umm, yeah, where ya keep that liverock? That stuff doesn't keep well outside of water ;)
JasonA
05-24-2003, 2:33 AM
Sorry for the long delay, but dinner plans took over my setup tonight..
As for the sand, forgot the name of it, but it's Aragonite Playbox sand. It says "Sterilized, screened, washed and kiln dried." I've got another 50# bag in the car but it's late and I'm tired..
So I don't have to wash this sand then? Just put it in, add the lacerock, then start to add water ??
If the water is cloudy, how long does it take to go away..I assume I should use the charcoal fliter to help get any left over dust out of the system??
I'll wait a day or two before I add the salt...wanna make sure everything is kosher..
As for the rocks, the lfs guys said to keep it in this special bag for up to a week...after all the salt has desolved, then you can add it to help speed up the cycling process...
Anywho...I'll start first thing in the morning.
Awestralian
05-24-2003, 3:09 AM
This is a good thread to learn from!
:D
"As for the sand, forgot the name of it, but it's Aragonite Playbox sand. It says "Sterilized, screened, washed and kiln dried." I've got another 50# bag in the car but it's late and I'm tired.."
Sounds like the right kinda stuff. Congrats, we Southern folks are all envious of your ability to get the good stuff so easily =P
"So I don't have to wash this sand then? Just put it in, add the lacerock, then start to add water ??"
Nope, the varied particle size is a good thing. Now, it will take some time to settle, but you can't really do much for that. Patience grasshopper =)
"If the water is cloudy, how long does it take to go away..I assume I should use the charcoal fliter to help get any left over dust out of the system??"
Nope, let it settle on it's own. All that dust is a beneificial thing.
"I'll wait a day or two before I add the salt...wanna make sure everything is kosher.."
Yeap, cuz you don't wanna go dumping 40 gallons worth of salt in until you know everything is gonna work. That junk ain't cheap!
"As for the rocks, the lfs guys said to keep it in this special bag for up to a week...after all the salt has desolved, then you can add it to help speed up the cycling process..."
Err, a bag? Never heard of that before. Yes, the liverock can and will speed up the cycle, but anything bigger than bacteria that is on it right now is gonna be completely fried by the ammonia spike. Liverock, IMHO, should only be added after the cycle is complete OR placed into a new tank in sufficient quantities to instantly "cycle" the tank. Again though, that's not a cheap think to do..
Originally posted by Awestralian
This is a good thread to learn from!
:D
That's what we are here for =) Feel free to ask for clarification on anything I've glossed over. When you've done it a few times, you take it forgranted that people just naturally understand the stuff yer talkin about.
JasonA
05-24-2003, 2:06 PM
So how long will it stay murky for ??? I put in the sand, got the lacerock setup, and then very slowly started puting water in it..
But it's murky...very murky.... and I've got the tank swirling around at a pretty good rate too...
Should I wait for the water to clear before I put the salt in ??
Thanks,
Jason
go ahead and kill the powerheads and filter, it'll help it calm down. Some report Southdown staying murky for a week =\ Feel free to salt away, it wont hurt a thing if you are SURE you will be using that water and not doing a change for some reason. (Wasting salt = EXPENSIVE!)
JasonA
05-24-2003, 7:19 PM
Just got back, tank is clearing up...less cloudy then before and I can see all the way through the long side where as before I couldn't..all that's running is the heater (set for 78*) the Maxijet, and the ViaAqua unit.... tank is in a swirling motion...I need 1 more head in there to create some turbulence cause even though it's in a rotational direction...
I do have a couple of "hot spots" in the corner where it SG is high and in other parts it's low...
But I just added it in 30 mins. ago..
We'll see what it looks like later tonight..
Go ahead and shut the skimmer down for now. You don't run those during the cycle cuz it kinda defeats what you are trying to accomplish.
The salt generally takes 24 hours to fully dissolve, so ya got plenty of time. I personally mix my change water for a week, but that's just part of my routine. =)
JasonA
05-24-2003, 10:16 PM
I'm not running the skimmer right now...I've heard not to do it until 2 weeks after starting..
As for the cloudyness....it seems to have stopped getting clearer and hasn't getten any better...
Most corners of the tank have perfect SG but I don't like how the water is cloudy...
In my dad's tanks, always running undergravel filters with coral, the water has ALWAYS come clear within a day....
This cloudy material is even passing through the charcoal filter cause I filled up a clear glass with the output and the water is murky:confused:
We'll see through the weekend..
Corax
05-24-2003, 10:19 PM
The particles you are seeing are smaller than your filtration (which should be turned off, btw...) can catch. Give em time, it will settle. Shut it all down, just let it settle.
Also, the salt mix will cause the water to be cloudy.
I run the same setup I've described to you and my water is crystal clear.
Patience grasshopper, only bad things happen quickly in a marine tank..
JasonA
05-24-2003, 10:46 PM
Ok...I'll turn off all water movement..but a quick question then..
Once all this stuff settles....will it get stired up easily either by just the water movment, creatures, or cleaning of the tank ??
I'll take a pic in a bit:)
Corax
05-24-2003, 10:51 PM
Nope, once the bacteria spereads to each and every grain of sand, it will be heavy enough to settle on it's own pretty quickly. Yeah, it'll stir up, but not for long.
JasonA
05-24-2003, 10:56 PM
Here's 2 pics..on from the front and one through the side...remember this is only a 40g and can't even see half way through..
All water movement/filtration has ceased... only heat.
These pics are large size to avoid compression artifacts as they were shot uncompressed..
http://www.montero4x4.com/tank/5-24-night.jpg
http://www.montero4x4.com/tank/5-24-night1.jpg
Corax
05-24-2003, 11:17 PM
yeap, that looks about right. Give that a few days, it should start clearing. Go ahead and chuck that cocktail shrimp in. The thing can rot with cloudy water, it wont mind =)
JasonA
05-25-2003, 11:28 AM
UPDATE! Woke up this morning and the tank got ALOT clearer overnight !!!
Still a slight haze and still have a few "hot spots" as far a SG goes but it's almost dead on for the most part..
Gonna run down to the store real quick and get a few shrimp!!
Can't wait to watch this happen!
http://www.montero4x4.com/tank/5-25-morn.jpg
http://www.montero4x4.com/tank/5-25-morn1.jpg
Thanks again for all your help Corax
Jason
P.S. Oh, also gonna run down and get another PH or 2...how should the water be moving in a tank? I've heard it's bad to have a perfect swirling motion cause then stuff will settle...I've heard that you want turbulence in a tank.
Corax
05-25-2003, 10:42 PM
Yeap, chaotic flows are what ya want. Myself, I aim 2 maxi-jet 600s towards the front-center of the tank from the right and left.
Based on the flow of air bubbles I've watched, this gives some pretty random movement.
Ahh, shrimp time! Got your Army surplus gas masks handy? You might need em! When I did my 29, it absolutely REEKED.. I pulled the shrimp after 2 days cuz I couldnt take anymore. However, when I did my 55, I only noticed a slight sweet smell.
Keep in mind, until your sand gets all ooey and gooey with bacteria, yer gonna have some blow around. It will settle eventually, just be patient.
cich-o
05-25-2003, 11:21 PM
Great Thread!
Hey Corax on those 2x 96 quads are they side by side or end to end ( 14" wide or 36" long)
Corax
05-25-2003, 11:30 PM
The powerquad bulb takes a footprint of 9" x 18" for the reflector. The bulb of course fits inside that. I run one on each end of my 55 and I get great coverage. You could use a different, non-paraboloic (bent) and mount 4 in a 55 probably. That would be seriously bright I'd say. The powerquad is the exact same thing as the 36w bulb, cept it is 4 tubes instead of 2 and is 96w instead of 36w. It does require a different ballast than the 36w, obviously, but all that came in the kit I bought.
cich-o
05-25-2003, 11:36 PM
Sorry about the hijack I was trying to make it a short one:) I guess what I am asking is that can a 2x 96 kit from bigals be squeezed over a 29g with reflector mods?
Corax
05-25-2003, 11:47 PM
Well, I just happen to have a 29g in the other room, I shall go measure... <goes to measure> My tank is about 12.5" from outside to outside. With a bit of creativity, such as mounting one bulb (or both) on an angle, I'd say you could make it fit. Keep in mind though, these bulbs run kinda hot. You will need a fan or 2 to keep it under control.
JasonA
05-27-2003, 12:09 AM
UPDATE: The tank has gotten cloudy again:confused: Not as bad as the first...but worse then the second pics I took..
It's weird, Friday night was VERY cloudy as shown in the first pics, then later Sat. night, it was getting VERY clear....
then, like a slow boat to China, it's been getting cloudy again and I haven't done a thing to it except add a new powerhead which has yet to be turned on and I added the 2 pieces of shrimp which hasn't done a thing yet..
I don't have my camera this second, will get it from my buddy later tonight who's selling some stuff on Ebay, but it's a cross between the first and second pics...
I can see the glass all the way down the long way, but barely...
I don't know what's going on, but again, I haven't touched a thing and the temp is steady at 78*...
Any ideas guys?
Thanks,
Jason
slipknottin
05-27-2003, 12:43 AM
Could be a bacteria bloom possibly.
Eh, doesnt matter, you have a month and a half wait now, so just relax. :)
JasonA
05-27-2003, 12:49 AM
Originally posted by slipknottin
Could be a bacteria bloom possibly.
Eh, doesnt matter, you have a month and a half wait now, so just relax. :) After only 3 days or so:eek:
I can't imagine it being that since it looks like the same "cloudy" stuff that it started with..
It's strange...wake up this morning and WTF:confused:
Like something stired up all the sand again or something...but what's strange is its not going back down:confused:
Well...just let it go and see...I'll take pics later tonight...he's bringing my camera back right now..
Is the shrimp in yet? That will cause a bloom and cloudiness.
JasonA
05-27-2003, 8:31 AM
yes, 2 pieces are in...but only after 1 day? and they still pretty much look intact still....
anywho, this morning...it's clearer then it was last night, getting close to what it was in the second set of pics but still a little ways to go...
JasonA
05-28-2003, 12:27 PM
Here's some more pics from this morning...
The shrimp are starting to deteriorate, and the water is still looking clearer little by little...
Front View (notice my wife's little skelly:p)
http://www.montero4x4.com/tank/5-28-morn1.jpg
Side View
http://www.montero4x4.com/tank/5-28-morn2.jpg
Shrimp starting to fall apart
http://www.montero4x4.com/tank/5-28-morn3.jpg
So far now for 2 days, the SG is dead on...haven't started to test anything else yet..
Should I ?? I was going to start a database and every other day take all the measurements and see what's happening.
Jason
Corax
05-28-2003, 12:35 PM
I'd give it about a week, cuz all yer gonna see is a maxed out ammonia test..
Question......
Is that a live starfish or some kind of decoration? A starfish is NOT suitable for surviving a cycle. You need to remove it right away. If it is fake, then it looks cool =)
JasonA
05-28-2003, 1:50 PM
yea, she saw it at the LFS and had to have it !!!... I myself though it looked pretty cool for being fake...
Anywho, thanks for the info..I'll start doing the test 1 week after it's all been running good..
Just hope the water clears up more...
whew, so glad you said it was a fake =) It's official now that yer finally cycling...... Welcome to the salty side! :D
JasonA
05-28-2003, 5:07 PM
Originally posted by Corax
It's official now that yer finally cycling...... Welcome to the salty side! :D
Euuuuu..... !!! I feel so...
well...salty !!!:cool:
How long do you think the cloudyness will stay?
JasonA
05-29-2003, 11:10 AM
just wondering if I should be pumping some o2 into the tank ??
The cloudyness is a first bloom right ???
Cause right now, even though all the powerhead and pumps are on..I have no oxy being pumped into the tank except for some slight surface movment..
I though that the bacteria that I'm trying to grow will need large amounts of oxy to do so during the first week?
Thanks,
Jason
Corax
05-29-2003, 11:23 AM
Nope, the surface agitation gives all the o2 exchange ya need. Personally, I aim a powerhead output at the surface to help things along.
As for the cloudy water, it takes as long as it takes =) Sometimes it stays a week, sometimes it goes away overnight.. Put it this way, by the time those shrimp turn to jelly, you should have nice clear water...
Did I mention they'll turn to jelly? It's really cool to see.. You can take a feeding prong and poke the shrimp and they'll sorta quiver in place..... DISGUSTING! But still pretty friggin cool at the same time ;) Takes about a week to reach that stage.
JasonA
05-29-2003, 11:38 AM
cool !!! I have til sunday and it'll have been a week since the shrimp went in..
Fun to watch them degrade away !!!
Thanks for the info..I'll leave everything the way it is right now..
OrionGirl
06-03-2003, 3:44 PM
Making this a sticky--it has some great info about setting up a new tank. I've seen it referenced it 2 or 3 other threads, so this will help out. Also changing the name of the thread (which may goof up some links--my apologies if that happens), so it's readily identifiable.
Sting
06-04-2003, 12:17 AM
When cycling using the shrimp, after the cycle is complete do you have to remove the shrimp or do they completely desintegrate?
JasonA
06-07-2003, 1:08 AM
Originally posted by Sting
When cycling using the shrimp, after the cycle is complete do you have to remove the shrimp or do they completely desintegrate? I also would like to know the same..
They are getting pretty nasty !!:eek:
Nope, they will soon completely vanish as the bacteria digest them. Have you enjoyed the jelly factor of em? I thought is was hillarious to watch a liquid within a liquid quiver =)
Some people do a big water change after it's all over, but I personally don't see that as being necessary. I mean, every trace of the shrimp will have been digested, what is left to change? Perhaps it is to remove the nitrate that is building up, but soon your DSB will take care of that for you.
Onion, I'm honored :D
JasonA
06-07-2003, 11:34 AM
Cool...there is already Alge growing on the sand in a few places..
I just did some more readings and it's in the other post.
JasonA
06-10-2003, 6:21 PM
Well things are coming along. Certain levels have dropped and everything is looking peachy....
First the pics....and the water is almost perfectly clear but I do have to clean the glass..
http://www.montero4x4.com/tank/6-10-night.jpg
http://www.montero4x4.com/tank/6-10-night1.jpg
Shrimp melting away !!!
http://www.montero4x4.com/tank/6-10-night2.jpg
Readings for 6-10..
PH= 8.2 (up from 8.1 and are now normal!!!)
Ammonia= 0ppm (down from .25ppm and is zero now !!!)
Nitrite= 5.0ppm (dropping fast from off the chart 4 days ago !!)
Nitrates= 80ppm (down from OFF THE CHART !! as my kit goes to 160ppm !!!)
Temp/ SG = Same
So things are really coming along now after 3 weeks of operation. The shrimp are quickly melting away and things are looking good..
I'll do 1 more on Thursday and I'm out for the weekend...
We'll see what happenes in 2 days !!
Jason
Sting
06-11-2003, 10:55 AM
Wow, that's awesome! Those shrimp look nasty- Did they ever sart smelling?
JasonA
06-11-2003, 2:44 PM
Originally posted by Sting
Wow, that's awesome! Those shrimp look nasty- Did they ever sart smelling? No, they really never did. I assume that would have been thanks to the incredible levels of Nitrates and Nitrites I had..
I took my little cleaner stick, and barely touch one of them and it just disintegrated into an almost dust like powder !!!
The tank was a bit cloudy with all the shrimp particles but after a hr. or so it's clearing back up... could not believe that !!!
I turned off the skimmer for now...gonna wait a few days and then after the 3rd. week, it'll run all the time...
I hoping by 4th. of July I'll be able to start getting some fish:D
Ray Pollett
06-13-2003, 4:26 PM
Don't forget the detrivores(and Clean up crew) - I always give them three weeks in a tank before the fish after the cycle is done. I also start to feed twice daily when I add the Detrivores( and Clean up Crew). You will be suprised at how much healthier you tank can be if you take the time now.
Ray
always learning
08-23-2003, 12:18 AM
I was thinking of buying a kit and grow brine shrimp, but I'm wondering if I should do that or just buy from the store. What do you feed with?
Ray Pollett
08-23-2003, 10:33 AM
I feed an asortment of flake foods. I just grind the flakes between my fingers as I drop them in the tank. Over feed a little. You will have a lot less algae problems later from my experience.
Ray
always learning
08-24-2003, 1:37 AM
actually I ment for feeding of fish, crabs... but thanks anyway and do you use freeze dried or sometimes frozen for fish? if not what do you use?
thanx,
always learning.
Ray Pollett
08-24-2003, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by always learning
actually I ment for feeding of fish, crabs... but thanks anyway and do you use freeze dried or sometimes frozen for fish? if not what do you use?
thanx,
always learning.
I feed mostly flake foods. Some small pellets. Once in a while some freeze dried bloodworms or krill. I never feed the frozen foods sold for the aquarium hobby, a waste of money. About once a week I feed my anemones, some corals(like bubble corals), starfish and my crabs frozen seafood from the grocery store (Squid, scallops, fish, shrimp). The fish always grab some when I fed the seafood, so I put extra in for them to eat. I usually have on hand about 11 or 12 different flake foods.
Ray
always learning
08-25-2003, 12:49 AM
Thanks for all your help Ray.
Turbo
11-24-2003, 12:18 PM
Gujustud
12-20-2003, 4:58 AM
Great post. Some awesome information!
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Corax
.
"Most everyone on this board uses it (Southdown), as does Aqualink, Reef Central.. Southdown is the same stuff you get at the LFS for $40/bag, only with a differnt label and for $4/bag. Southdown is the holy grail of sand for us marine nerds, and unless yer from the North-East, you'll probably be using silica sand like the rest of us, myself included.. Nothing wrong with silica, it just has no buffering advantages like Southdown which is an aragonite (calcium) based sand."
I just picked up some silica sand, but I'm concerned because the fine print says that the sillica dust can cause silicosis and cancer. Is this the same silica sand that you're talking about? I've called every landscape supply house, home improvement store, nursery, and cement supplier in town, and nobody has white play sand, or aragonite. The silica sand is for sandblasting. Is it going to be safe for the fish?
Thanks for your help...
JasonA
01-24-2004, 2:37 PM
new pics of the 80 coming tonight !!
JasonA
02-08-2004, 10:51 AM
Almost ready to post pics of the 80.... and we're almost at the 5000 view count:cool:
canzures
02-16-2004, 3:21 PM
I just read this post and it's very informative. kudos. I consider my self a FW veteran and currently have a 55g african cichlid tank that I want to convert to a SW tank in the near future. My question is what does the initials "RO" mean when describing water?
Also JasonA do you have any fish in your tank yet and if so pics if any and what type.
gbolton
02-16-2004, 3:24 PM
"RO" Stands for Reverse Osmosis. This is a highly purified water and can be bought at most LFS that deal in SaltWater as well as many stores that sell drinking water.
Mike87SS
03-29-2004, 11:08 AM
This is a great thread, and has provided me with a lot of info. This newb appreciates it :)
loyalty
04-01-2004, 3:28 PM
so were those shrimp alive? or did you just plunk in dead ones?
I'm so confused
also, instead of waiting till after the first cycle, I dumped in my live sand as soon as i added the RO water (which is mostly floating around the top for some reason) The guy at the pet store told me to do this, but the book i bought on marine tanks had only a brief mention of live sand. I haven't put the filter or powerhead on, because i thought the sand at the surface would gum them up.
I read on the forum that bacteria would eventually weigh the sand down, so is there something i should do to promote that bacteria growth? thanks
OrionGirl
04-01-2004, 3:32 PM
The shrimp used were dead, cocktail shrimp from the deli. They decompose, which introduce ammonia, which is the food source for the beneficial bacteria you want established. Ammonia is a natural waste product of fish, and toxic. The bacteria break it down into nitrites (also toxic), that is broken down to nitrates by another set of bacteria.
becky_e
04-24-2004, 9:45 PM
Hello,
I'm planning to convert a 45 gallon FW tank in the near future and I want to make sure I understand the DSB idea correctly before I start. This will be my first SW tank. An aquarium book I read parts of recently mentioned a similar system. (I think it was called a pleroma system or something.) However, it said that you needed a 2" space at the bottom (like an undergravel with the filter removed) to let the water circulate beneath the anaerobic bacteria. Do you need this, and how deep does the sand bed need to be to use this system?
The info is great, I just would prefer to make as few newbie mistakes as possible.
Ray Pollett
04-25-2004, 10:19 AM
Originally posted by becky_e
Hello,
I'm planning to convert a 45 gallon FW tank in the near future and I want to make sure I understand the DSB idea correctly before I start. This will be my first SW tank. An aquarium book I read parts of recently mentioned a similar system. (I think it was called a pleroma system or something.) However, it said that you needed a 2" space at the bottom (like an undergravel with the filter removed) to let the water circulate beneath the anaerobic bacteria. Do you need this, and how deep does the sand bed need to be to use this system?
The info is great, I just would prefer to make as few newbie mistakes as possible.
That is a Plennium system(sp?) with the space below the sand. I personally see no need for the space and do not leave it.
Ray
DanielHoerr
07-22-2004, 5:38 PM
Wow!
Another newbie just wanting to pass along praise to all of you for this thread. I've learned more in the 15 minutes of reading this than all previous research!!!
Very clear and informative.
:D
THANKS!
iluvguppies
07-25-2004, 3:49 PM
I am a marine newb...what does LFS mean?
benjen
07-26-2004, 10:18 AM
LFS = Live Fish Seller / Local Fish Store
In short, your town's pet store(s).
iluvguppies
07-26-2004, 10:58 AM
k, thanks
Pelagic Hero
09-21-2004, 9:55 AM
I've read/seen/been told of many articles that suggest the coctail shrimp method is not the most effective method of cycling a new tank. I've also had personal experience with this.
My suggestion is that beginner marine enthusiasts need not believe this method to be the only one available. I suggest reading books (many are available) that give advice on the procedure to cycle a new tank. Once you read some resources on the matter, you can decide which method is most acceptable to you.
A lot of the procedures I've seen here are unnecessary and waste time. I agree that patience is needed when starting a new tank, but I also believe that some "experts" on the subject get carried away in method, causing undue stress on the beginner aquarist.
Starting a new tank does not need to be as time consuming as outlined previously. Nor should the costs be so great.
If seeing is believeing, I've personally seen many intricate reef tanks flourish without being set-up in the manner described earlier.
As always, when dealing with science (this is science, after all), a skeptical mind is beneficial. Critical thinking can be applied here, and I am skeptical that the outlined "standard" given at the head of this thread is not really standard at all.
In any case, be skeptical of my post as well. Don't take my word as gospel. Ask around and forge your own opinion!
My two cents. Thanks.
hultman
10-03-2004, 6:33 PM
Just for kicks, what method of cycling a new tank do you prefer?
clariza
10-05-2004, 5:07 AM
hi!
i have a 15 gal. salt water tank. i'm planning to get a bigger tank soon.
what's the ideal size for a saltwater tank? i'm planning to transfer my 1 anemone, 3 clowns, and 3 other damsel fish and 1 flaming scallop.
:)
logicalsl
10-12-2004, 1:37 AM
I ‘m new to salt water tank’s and are learning a lot here in the groups, I live in South Florida and I’m finding that we set up tanks here differently than what I’m reading in the groups. I have 2 tanks the first was set up on September 11 and I started the tank in day one with 4 live Damsels to cycle the tank and now have a puffer a yellow tank and a Dottyback in the tank. This is the two setups that I find used in south Florida and they both work greater for me
Tank one 35Gallon Hex shaped tank
First I filled the tank 60% fresh ocean salt water $0.50 a gallon its cheep enough we don’t mix salt here or I can drive 10 miles to the beach and get it free.
Added 20 LB live sand (no bed rock or crushed rock) I was told not necessary.
added 20 Lb live rock and toped off the tank with water had to add 3 gallons of bottle water to get the salinity down to 1.023.
Ran the filter for 12 hours before I added 4 Damsels to start my tank cycling, by the way the water was mostly clear in 4 hours and very clear in 24 hours. Tested water before Damsel was added. Test results PH 8.0 Nitrites 0 Nitrates 0 Ammonia
The tank cycled for 3 weeks and is doing well. On week 3 I asked my LFS when I was buying the puffer and Yellow Tang how can I speed up the cycle process to my 50 Gal tank? He told me to add Bacter Vital (www.marcweissco.com) in my tank to add bacteria and cycle tank in days instead of weeks and to add Kent Marine Superbuffer-dkh (www.kentmarine.com) to bring my PH up to 8.3 and Ionic coal added in my wet dry to absorb any ammonia.
This is what he uses and he can add fish in a stable tank in 3 to 4 days and add live coral in just over a week.
On Monday 10/4/04 I set up my 50 Gal tank.
Equipment: Wet/Dry with a Mag drive 750 pump and a Berlin Red Sea Skimmer that I’m still missing a pump for.
First I added 60% water to the tank, than added 40 Lb Live Sand and 50 Lb Live Rock and toped off water in tank but this time I didn’t add fresh water to bring down the salinity I kept it at 1.024.
Run pump for 12 Hours and added the same Damsels from the other tank and tested water.
Test results PH 8.0 Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0.25, and Nitrate 0 I’m not sure why the Nitrite was up. I added one teaspoon Kent Marine Superbuffer and one teaspoon Bacter Vita and re tested the water the next day PH 8.4 Amm 0 Nitrate 0 Nitrite 0. By the way I have to add one teaspoon of Bacter Vital in the tank for the next 30 days. Today when I took a sample to the LFS he told me that the tank is ready for fish so now I have added to the tank one Tomato Clown $11.00 and one Striped Grouper $20.00 to the tank, so far they are doing great but the Damsels have been hiding from the grouper.
I hope this is of any help to everyone.
Reefer Ron
11-11-2004, 8:53 PM
I sure am glad I have found this site and joined! Very informative! I'm very new to the Marine thing. So far I love the chalenge of it all. I have had my 125g set up for 7 weeks now! I belive i've read to many different books, sometimes it is all just confussing. Anyway my parramaters are all good but I have a hard time keeping clowns alive. I have various corals 22, two firemouths or fireheads?, two black sailfin blennies, one lawnmower blennie, 2 fire red shrimp, 4 scarlet Skunk cleaner shrimp, 2 Tiger-stripped sea stars, an algae attack pack, (which cleared up my massive hair algae problem in less than 24 hours), 3-4 inches of live sand, and 200lbs of live rock, Oh and also 3 bulb anemones. Every thing seems to be not only doing fine but is growing! But I can't seem to keep fish alive for very long? I need some experiencied insight.
Thanks, Newb real new at this
Reefer Ron
11-11-2004, 8:58 PM
I have just ordered a 250g tank with over flows in both back corners. I have a 135g that I want to use as a refugium/trickle. Is this a good or bad idea. And how should I go about doing this?
Quick question. This may be obvious to some, but I have to ask...
The "shrimp" method of cycling -- should I use a raw shrimp (i.e., the black ones that aren't shelled) or a cooked shrimp (pink, with no shell)? I went Ralph's seafood counter and they asked me and I was like "um, I have no idea... Just give me two of each." The lady looked at me funny.
So, pink or black??
thanks,
bruce
OrionGirl
12-08-2004, 10:00 AM
Raw works better--they break down quicker. Cooking is a preservative, so the cooked shrimp will still produce ammonia, just not as quickly.
Raw works better--they break down quicker. Cooking is a preservative, so the cooked shrimp will still produce ammonia, just not as quickly.
I tossed the raw shrimp in at about 7pm last night. Remember, raw shrimp are that grey/black color?
At 8am this morning, they were plump and pink. Temp = 25C. I didn't think you could slow cook shrimp in a SW tank, but hey... :-)
thanks,
bruce
rrobinson1971
01-12-2005, 11:28 PM
use the carbon, , lighting depends on what u plan to keep. you can buy a electronic ballast for 4 no t-8 bulbs about 20 bucks, and wiring supplies ect about 10 bucks. even 2 watts a gallon fine for some things like most mushrooms and a few zoes. on lighting, whatever you do,, id do 75% 10,000 kelvin and 25% actinic blue. bulbs under 6,500 kelvin are a bad idea, to much red spectrum,,also get bulbs with highest cri=color rendering index, and lux also called lumens,,which is the actual light output, or brightness. good luck
rrobinson1971
01-12-2005, 11:31 PM
well not to hurt yer feelings, but 95% of flame scallops dont last 6 months,,,its a feeding problem. sometimes blended dts phyto target feed keeps em alive a year or so,,,other than that a 55 gallon would be a great step up size for you...good luck
Oliver
01-17-2005, 8:50 PM
Hi Jason. For a salt water tank, containing live rock you should not have a canister filter. This will defeat the purpose of having live rock/sand in the first place. LIve rock gives out a huge ammount of good bacteria and a canister filter will just prevent this from happening. You should be looking at having enough powerheads/internal filters to turn the water over 20 times in 1 hour. As for the light, i have constructed my light and i must say it was easy, but if you are going with light sticks, about 3 tubes the lenght of your tank would be appropriate, depending on the size of your tank.
woodyblueeyes
01-21-2005, 10:25 AM
The shrimp used were dead, cocktail shrimp from the deli. They decompose, which introduce ammonia, which is the food source for the beneficial bacteria you want established. Ammonia is a natural waste product of fish, and toxic. The bacteria break it down into nitrites (also toxic), that is broken down to nitrates by another set of bacteria.
If I go with the shrimp to cycle, for a 40gal tank how many shrimp should I chunk into the tank?
SlowJim
02-17-2005, 1:26 PM
If I go with the shrimp to cycle, for a 40gal tank how many shrimp should I chunk into the tank?
1 medium-to-large sized raw shrimp will do just fine ;)
79fever
02-19-2005, 10:54 PM
Thanks for the great info. So glad I can copy and start an info folder. I have been told to use right now bacteria when I start my tank. Any thoughts? I have gotten 4 powerheads to place in tank. Can there be too much water movement in a quasi reef/fish? Also can crushed oyster be used in DSB? Maybe mixed with sand?
70gal tank liverock/sump system. going with passive fish.
OrionGirl
02-22-2005, 9:51 AM
Yes and no. Lots of water movement is a good thing, but there are some animals that will prefer less. So, you can break up the current with rock and provide low movement areas for those animals without compromising the total flow.
Crushed oyster won't provide denitrifaction--it will be similar to crushed coral. Mixing it will help, but still not provide as much surface area for bacteria to colonize.
firehunter451
02-23-2005, 4:05 PM
i junt want to see if i am following.
1. place the aquarium = done
2. mix 50% sandbox safe play sand and 50% live sand in the bottom of the aquaiurm
3. and add water with a heater.
4. let that set and place 2 - 3 coctail shimp in and let the amonia and nitrates spike ( do i need to have the filter system running)
5. once the tanke has cycled place the live rock
6. place starter fish in and let set for a few weeks.
7. start adding fish slowly and once my rocks have veriuse color add coral and aninamies
this a great i am learning so much hear
79fever
02-24-2005, 9:27 AM
Ok. to create the DSB use sand,live sand, maybe some crushed coral? Do not place a layer of crushed oyster on bottom than add the layer of sands? Can I add sea shells to the set up from craft stores? Beside anything metal,bad things, are there other dangerous decoration that should not go into the tank?
OrionGirl
02-24-2005, 9:36 AM
The crushed coral won't benefit the system in anyway, and a thick enough layer can inhibit the denitrifiers. Clean, untreated shells can be added and are fine. Decorations that are inert are fine--and some that are not will be as well. I tend to avoid decorations that don't look natural, but that's a matter of choice. Sharp objects that would pose a threat to fish should be avoided, as well. What did you have in mind?
79fever
02-24-2005, 3:51 PM
I was just wondering what could be harmful. Maybe some terecotta pots? I haven't set up yet, waiting for homemade LR to cure. What about that black sand that I've seen on-line, is that ok? I'm really greatful for the help. I don't really trust The LFS ppl all that much.
Home made live rock oragon cement I
crusher oyster shell/crushed coral
water
OrionGirl
02-25-2005, 9:34 AM
Terra cotta is safe, as long as it a new, clean pot. Used pots can retain ferts or chemicals that may have been used on the plant, and these things may leach back into your water.
79fever
02-25-2005, 1:41 PM
As far as the sand is concerned as long as it's sterile it's ok? :confused:
OrionGirl
02-25-2005, 1:56 PM
Cleaned, at least. Doesn't have to be sterile--I've used QuickCrete brand sand and had no problems. The variety of grain size is what you're aiming for, though composition should at least be known. Silica is fine, too.
SpankyPlants
02-26-2005, 9:12 PM
Wow this is such an awesome thread! :) I've learned so much!
Question: I want to change my FW planted tank into a marine tank. I have playsand in the tank right now as substrate. Would it be safe to keep the old playsand and mix with live sand, or should I get all new playsand? The sand bed is about 2" deep.
Thanks! :D
OrionGirl
02-28-2005, 9:18 AM
Should be fine to keep the old sand. When you remove your plants, make sure you get all the roots out, or you'll be setting yourself up for some nitrogen issues.
sethgarden
02-28-2005, 4:02 PM
wow this thread went from 05-24-2003, 06:58 AM untill Today 03:18 AM 05
thats 2 years lol
firehunter451
02-28-2005, 8:01 PM
so if you use the quick creat sand, and mix it with live sand, is there any ratio you should use? and will the quick creat sand become live (like rock does)?
79fever
02-28-2005, 8:52 PM
I ended up buying a guide on e-bay on how to make liverock, I only lost $5. You can get the almost same guide on
http://saltaquarium.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.com%2F CapeCanaveral%2FHangar%2F6279%2FRaiseCementRock.ht ml
I had a lot of fun making caves and ziti rock. It's a bit messy and It takes about a month to cure, unless you use the short cuts and I didn't. To answer your question. I would just follow the guide at the site I gave you. I would say Cement is way to high in ph to let anything live it would be mixed with.
OrionGirl
03-01-2005, 9:36 AM
Quickcrete sand doesn't have any concrete in it, it's just a brand of sand.
Yes, it will become live.
dr_drmd
08-25-2005, 11:25 PM
OK...a quick question from someone who had SW years ago, and is going back into it now.
The original poster started cycling the tank with shrimp. Here's my question: was his live rock the only thing he was using for filtration?? What about mechanical filtration? Back when I did it, I was taught to have 2 major forms of filtration (biological and mechanical)...which I achieved with a wet/dry sump. What is Jason using for mechanical filtration? What is he using for biological fiiltration? Just the live rock?
OrionGirl
08-26-2005, 10:58 AM
In most reefs and many FOWLR, organisms like copopods, bristleworms, starfish, snails, crabs, and shrimp are the mechanical filters. They consume wastes and uneaten food, further breaking it down and removing some of the nutrients from the system (well, not removing but binding them in the form of more worm, star, snails, crab or shrimp). Since these animals come in a variety of sizes and food preferences, a diverse mix will result in very little waste that decays in the system. Mechanical filters can be used as well, as long as they do not trap detritus where the critters can't get to it--one reason why wet-dry setups can cause nitrate spikes in systems is that the bio-ball media doesn't provide great access to the detrivores. Sponges prefiltering water in advance of a wet-dry resolve this concern, but still require monitoring.
The live rock and sand are the media for the biological filtration, often supplemented with algaes--macros like chaeto, and coralline algae as well. I usually leave the entire back and one side of my tank uncleaned--allowing the hair algaes to grow, which helps reduce nitrates, as well as providing good grazing ground for the herbivores, and improving pod reproduction.
LordsSoilder
08-30-2005, 12:18 PM
Ok, I have to say, This forum section is Amazing!
It has captivated me and made me sure that I want in on a peice of the action here... I am a tech geek and I love electronical things of all kinds. But something about the serenity of fish and their habitats calms me in a way that others can't. I have alot of "" Free "" time can be used towards this exciting new hobby. Thanks for all the inciteful info, I will soon be on my way to SW Heaven :p
BTW... My brother recently started a SW tank and did it in a frighteningly fast and unstable but managable way. After reading all of these great Ideas made me not want to take the same path my brother did even though his worked fine (Luckily)
All he did was got the tank (55g) set it up on a coffee table then added crushed coral and the salt water mix he then test his levels and within hours added the live rock... after 2 days of balance (the pet store was amazed of his acheived balance) he then added his fish etc... He later found that his live rock came with many extra goodies like a 5inch (Aprox.) Crab and other things living in its little cave... After about 5 days he said he got really worried because all the living stuff shrank dramatically (im asuming that was the burn you guys were talking about) then after a day or two it came back...
He simply did'nt take the time to set anything up and still managed to get his tank going. and now its thriving...
anyway just thought I'd add this to point out that I think there are many different ways that work but not all of them are best for everyone...
I know I've learned alot from this one section and I definitely look forward to sharing my tales from the SW Newbyizm...
:shark:
nverlast1
09-09-2005, 6:26 PM
i been reading threads here for a while and they have been great help but now i have a couple of q? im settin up a 55 gal tank for moray eel, how much salt,when to add, do i need the base rock or live sand or can i roll with the castle rock sand?
colesy
09-24-2005, 3:45 PM
JasonA how is your tank coming along anyway? It's been awhile since you have posted updated pictures. I was also wondering how you paid for your intial base rock, and how many lbs that was. Did you just pick it up at your local pet store?
apeco69
10-14-2005, 8:47 AM
after that happens what about the algae growth.
rottlvr2
10-18-2005, 8:36 PM
Jason, I am curious as to how your tank turned out. I am considering a 55g FOWLR.
rottlvr2 :D
fitnessfien
10-31-2005, 5:04 PM
i just recently bought a 135 gal. going to go slt for the first time. im going to go fish only but i wanted to know how many power heads would i need and where should they be placed? great site ive been reading for hours thanks for all the info.
FreddytheFish
10-31-2005, 5:06 PM
begining saltwater
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i just recently bought a 135 gal. going to go slt for the first time. im going to go fish only but i wanted to know how many power heads would i need and where should they be placed? great site ive been reading for hours thanks for all the info.
You might want to start a new thread for this. I'd say it depends on the size of the powerheads.
tomdkat
11-29-2005, 4:18 PM
This is a great thread! I've kept marine aquaria over the years but I haven't had any up for the past 4 years or so and I'm looking to start one up (55g) soon. :)
This forum has changed my mind about subscribing to an aquarium magazine! :D
Peace...
the3kgt2
12-02-2005, 5:12 PM
Glad this thread is still up and running. I wish I read this before I bought my live rock. I just finished setting up my tank 2 days ago and ordered live rock on Sunday. It's being shipped ground 5 days and will be here tomorrow. If the 5 day shipping isn't bad enough to kill off the live rocks, the Ammonia spike that hasn't happened yet sure will. I guess I'll just throw it in there and buy a few more pounds when the cycle is done...
Greeting to all from Sunny Southwest Florida. I feel lucky to have found this site prior to my first SW setup. There was a poster, Logical, on here who only posted to this thread once. Residing in Florida, he claimed to be able to set-up his 35 gal Hex tank in 72 hours using only Ocean water and live sand.
Exerpt from His thread:
filled the tank 60% fresh ocean salt water $0.50 a gallon its cheep enough we don’t mix salt here or I can drive 10 miles to the beach and get it free.
Added 20 LB live sand (no bed rock or crushed rock) I was told not necessary.
added 20 Lb live rock and toped off the tank with water had to add 3 gallons of bottle water to get the salinity down to 1.023.
Ran the filter for 12 hours before I added 4 Damsels to start my tank cycling, by the way the water was mostly clear in 4 hours and very clear in 24 hours. Tested water before Damsel was added. Test results PH 8.0 Nitrites 0 Nitrates 0 Ammonia
He only posted once and was never heard from again. I'm thinking maybe nitrates got him, lol.
I'm not looking for a shortcut here; but, I love the idea of saving time using a natural resource I obvoulsy have in ready supply.
Would anyone care to support/debunk this method?
jayfish
12-31-2005, 12:07 AM
i read every post on this tread and relized the local kid at my fish storedidnt help i starteda swfish tank11/15 and wasted no time putting fish andlive rock in the tank (within a week) i ran awisper style of filter for the 2weeks and recently changed it to a wet dry with a scimmeri guess my biggest worry i have right now is the type of substrate i used-i wish i could tell you what it is its saltwater safe whiteitsnot coral but a kind of gravel my ? is can i safely add live sand or sand to the tank right now without harming the fish i have put in? 3 damsels 1arrow crab 1emerald crab 3 turbo snails and some polyps to the best of my knowledge i beleave the tank has cycled but there was never a real big spike of anything other then an algae bloom wich the snails cleaned up for me if anyone can give me some advice i would apreciate it :dance2: thankyou