Chemical Filtering of Ammonia in New Tank?

[cleverr1]

Hi,
I'm very new to this having bought a 21 gallon tank three weeks ago. I tried a fishless adding ammonia approach to cycling for the first two weeks - no nitrite produced. The family got impatient, so I did an almost total water change, left it for 24 hours and then added seven red eyed tetras. Four days later we noticed a change in behaviour with ammonia reading just under 2ppm and reacted by doing a partial water change. From what I've read I understand that this process of fish stress and water change will be repeated many times before the cycling completes, which is unfair.

I have just ordered a Fluval 205, some ammonia remover and clearmax. Can this be used as an ongoing solution to remove ammonia and nitrite with the same or more fish? (I'm thinking of putting the existing filter in a small tank and performing a complete fishless cycle, then reintroducing it into the original tank and removing the chemical filters from the 205.)

Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
:help2:
Roger

[NeonJulie]

Man too bad you couldn't have fended them off. I don't understand people's ability to get so beligerant about someone's tank - it happened with my dad. Why people don't have enough things to worry about other than how many days your tank has been sitting empty...

Amazing how you never hear of anyone being forced to close on a brand new house, and move in before the toilets and ventilation's even installed. >< /end rent

Anyway, I would be careful with those products. The water conditioner Prime does something similar in that it converts ammonia to a less harmful form for the fish, while still keeping available for the bacteria so that your cycle is not affected.

The filter idea may help, but it'll probably be better to try and find some Bio-Spira or someone else in your area with a tank already established, that you could obtain their old filters from.

[severum mama]

I agree, don't use products like ammonia remover (I'm not sure what Clearmax is, but it doesn't sound like something I would add). You won't need these products as an ongoing solution, either. Once the tank cycles, the bacteria will take care of converting ammonia into nitrite and nitrite into nitrate. The nitrate is what you remove through weekly water changes, along with dissolved organic compounds. Basically, the only chemical your tank should ever need is a dechlorinator.

Cycling is a whole different ballgame, and is much harder to do than caring for an established tank. If you do not have a liquid reagent test kit, I advise you to buy one. You'll need to test the water at least once daily and perform enough water changes to keep the ammonia below .5 and nitrite below .25. Do not vacuum the gravel or clean your filter until you are sure the tank has cycled. As NeonJulie mentioned, the best ways to speed up this process are to either buy BioSpira (it is pricey, and do NOT waste your $ on any product other than Marineland's BioSpira), which doesn't always work, or to get a hold of an old filter pad, handful of gravel, etc. from an established tank.

[Star_Rider]

I wouldn't add anything that re,oves the ammonia etc.
these do work but they need to be changed regularly..they can also have a negative impact on the cycle. the ammonia absorbers do absorb ammonia ..but they also may hinder the cycle as the bacterai need some level of ammonia.
the other things to consider...these once ful may actually relase ammonia bac into the system..causing an extremem spike.
they are also expensive and as mentioned need to be replaced frequently.

it is much more prudent and cheaper to do daily water changes as needed,

get that test kit

[jm1212]

now that you have added fish, you will need to be doing water changes alteast once a day to keep the ammonia levels low, around 0.25.

[Hooked Newbie]

Shakes his head, wishing he sought this advice beforehand...

Cleverr1- Good luck and read all you can before you enter the water change / fish loss abyss that I've found myself in! Fend the family off.

I knew nothing about cycling and was adding amquel+ originally, which seems to have only prolonged everything. I'm 3 weeks into it and only now (after multiple daily water changes, filter upgrade, biospira, etc.) making any progress. Heed the advice of these folks, they've been my only saving grace and can save you a ton of work & money! Just a Newbie's opinion though... :O)

[cleverr1]

Hi,
Thank you all for the helpful replies. I felt that in my situation I had to go with the in-filter Ammonia Remover (Zeolite) solution in the short term for the welfare of the fish. A week or so later and the fish in the aquarium appear to be very happy with their chemical filter, as a stopgap anyway.

The original fluval 2 plus filter is now in a large plastic box with a tank heater, and undergoing a fishless cycle. I saturated the water to 5ppm ammonia, and within 5 days it had all gone and I now have a massive nitrite peak. I'm now dosing the "tank" to approx 2.5 ppm daily until both the nitrite and ammonia levels reach zero in 24 hours - Could anyone please tell me how long should that take?

The next stage will be to reintroduce the 2 plus filter into the aquarium and remove the chemical filter substrates from the Fluval 205 to switch over to a fully biological system. I eventually want to remove the 2 plus filter altogether. So my next big question is; Would it be better to leave the Fluval 205 (chemical filters removed) running in parallel with the 2 plus in the aquarium, or would it be better to remove the 205 and run a fishless cycle with it in the plastic box? My concern is that if I just leave it in place, how will I know when the 205 has built up enough of its own bacteria?

Once again, thanks in advance for any help you can offer!

Roger:newbie:

[Rbishop]

Provided the two filters do not give you flow issues, I'd leave both of then on the tank.

[TKOS]

It sounds like you already have a decent amount of ammonia eating bacteria in the older filter. And you are combatiing ammonia issues in the tank with fish? So why not move that filter back. At least by this point you won't be worrying about ammonia and you will have a head start on the nitrites, which can be combatted by adding NaCl in low doses to your tank (along with water changes). There is no sense worrying about a fishless cycle at this point. Put all you got on the main tank and make it work.

[cleverr1]

Making progress...
The nitrites in the fishless tank went down to zero within five days of the peak, at which point I added enough ammonia to get to 4ppm, and the next day the ammonia and nitrite were at zero.
The live tank now has both filters running, and the ammonia remover / clearmax have been removed from the Fluval 205. 36 hours later and NH3, NH4 and NO2 are all zero. Finally got there!:dance:

The tank now has 2 dwarf gouramis, 10 neon tetras, 2 sailfin mollies and a betta. When things are more established I intend to add a clown loach to combat the snails (which have done a brilliant job on the algae, but are a bit too prolific), and an ancistrus.

Having gone through this process I can't see why the lfs doesn't maintain a stock of its most popular filter media precycled in a fishless environment. It would get their customers up and running in far less time without any fish having to suffer.

Roger

[crharvel]

Having gone through this process I can't see why the lfs doesn't maintain a stock of its most popular filter media precycled in a fishless environment. It would get their customers up and running in far less time without any fish having to suffer.

Roger


I though the same thing trying to get mine to cycle. An old 55 gallon fish tank, an industrial air pump, and a box full of new sponge filters... voila instant business model

[Mgamer20o0]

Making progress...
The nitrites in the fishless tank went down to zero within five days of the peak, at which point I added enough ammonia to get to 4ppm, and the next day the ammonia and nitrite were at zero.
The live tank now has both filters running, and the ammonia remover / clearmax have been removed from the Fluval 205. 36 hours later and NH3, NH4 and NO2 are all zero. Finally got there!:dance:

The tank now has 2 dwarf gouramis, 10 neon tetras, 2 sailfin mollies and a betta. When things are more established I intend to add a clown loach to combat the snails (which have done a brilliant job on the algae, but are a bit too prolific), and an ancistrus.

Having gone through this process I can't see why the lfs doesn't maintain a stock of its most popular filter media precycled in a fishless environment. It would get their customers up and running in far less time without any fish having to suffer.

Roger
but they wouldnt make all that money from people buy fish after fish when the ones they bought died.