View Full Version : 20 gallon suggestions?
Well I have a 20 gallon I was using for a grow out tank, but I have nothing to grow out and don't plan on purchasing anymore fish until I get my new place and purchase more tanks. And that wont be for quite some time (purchasing more tanks). So that leaves my a 20 open for suggestions. Only thing I can think of I would want is a pair of neolamprologus brich's. Only cichlids please. Thats all I really care about. I want to see some suggestions as too what you guys would do.
Kirin Fang
05-25-2003, 2:34 AM
I'd probably put a breeding pair of Kribensis (Pelvicachromis pulcher) in there. Or maybe some Rams.
Actually, once I get my new 55 gallon I'll use my 32 gallon for some Kribs.
Haggisman
05-25-2003, 8:50 AM
A pair of rainbow cichlids or keyhole cichlids, bolivian rams would also be a good choice.
In my planted 30 I have a pair of cockatoo dwarf cichlids, a panda dwarf cichlid and a gold ram.
ChilDawg
05-25-2003, 10:39 AM
Maybe, maybe, shellies?
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11184
Jayhawk
05-25-2003, 11:16 AM
ChillDawg beat me to it, but I was thinking shellies, too. Throw in some crushed coral sand, some escargot shells from your local fine food store, and get yourself 4 Neolamprologus multifasciatus. Same cool family behaviors of the brichardi, but in my old 20 high I actually had a pair leave the parents area and start a rival group on the other side of the tank.
Plus, the fry will work as food for your other cichlids (not trying to be cruel, but multis like brichardis would overpopulate the earth if you don't periodically sell or cull the fry (actually, I got over $50 credit for my multis when I sold a large batch of fry (about 20 of them).
If you've never had multis, think brichardi at only 1.5 inches that hide in shells and dig about 2000 times more often than any other fish alive. They'll make sand walls about 8 to 10 inches high. Just level the sand when cleaning the tank and see how pissed off a dwarf cichlid can be! Seriously, they're a blast for little fish.
Haggisman
05-25-2003, 12:36 PM
Shellies are cool but pretty drab.
Rainbow cichlid
http://perso.club-internet.fr/burnel/Amc/Hmultispinosam.JPG
Keyhole
http://www.aquascape.co.uk/keyhole4.jpg
Bolivian Ram
http://apisto.bravepages.com/library/M.altispinosa.JPG
;)
Well the rams are awesome I know I wanted to keep them awhile back but my ph is way to high for those picky guys. Its at the least 7.8 if im lucky. but its always stable but I don't believe rams stand for a ph that high no matter the stability. Which saddens me because they are the perfect fish for a 20 tall. Oh well, I'll consider the shellies (just because I've never kept them) and the keyhole. Thanks for the replies guys.
Jayhawk
05-25-2003, 5:06 PM
Optix - I'm pretty sure the Bolivian rams are from a pH of 7.6 or so naturally, so they'd be fine in your water. Try adding 2-3 big pieces of driftwood, and within a month your pH will likely drop .2 to .4 depending on your hardness. If it's like my city water, the pH might drop .4 to .6 because the water is made softer by the city.
Really?? sweet then I guess the rams are on top of the list along with shellies.
Yeah rams will do fine in that ph but I think it needs to be around 6.8-7 for them to breed. As far as just keeping them the mid sevens should be fine. I also agree with the driftwood statement and I think it makes a lovely backdrop when it gets a little algae on it.
Other options that would be cool but you'd have to be careful with would be to have a tank-with ONLY-a Convict Pair (that means 2 and only 2) or a Firemouth Pair. These fish are both recommended to be kept in bigger tanks, but if you can aqcuire an assured pair, you should be fine. You wouldn't be able to have any other fish in there at all, because these fish get very aggressive towards other tankmates when they are breeding, but you'd have a nice tank with lots of action, since Convicts and Firemouths are both active active breeders!
A great tank idea, but one that has to be carried out with caution and patience. Good luck!
optix
05-25-2003, 11:16 PM
Well im currently doing con's in my 29 and firemouths didn't work out so im going to go with rams most likely and if not shellies are my next option :). thanks for the response though
optix
05-26-2003, 12:26 AM
ok say I get the shellies brevis. What bottom feeders would you reccommend and some type of fish to add to the activity such as making the male show territorial display as jayhawk spoke of in his report??? Are the white clouds the best?? Or are there other fish that would do well with them??
Jayhawk
05-26-2003, 7:59 AM
Of the shellies, if you go with brevis, they're pair bonding. If you can't get a pair for sure, get 4 to 6 (half large & half small). In the 20, you'll get a pair from the batch and any extra brevis you can either trade in or keep because they will show the territorial displays and all with each other.
Good bottom feeders for the smaller tank are Synodontis petricola (the smallest synodontis) and I've also done the old upsidedown catfish with them, too. Bushynose or rubberlip plecos work great also.
If you want upper water fish, danios, white clouds, guppies, platys all work well.
Earlier I suggested multifasciatus as another shellie. They'll only do well with fast topwater fish. They're so like brichardis. Mine beat the crud out of julies twice their size, and mercilessly picked on a pleco that I eventually moved out because they would attack him in waves. If you go with multis, just get 4-6, and within about 3-4 months there is a good chance you may have two groups. If not, you'll see displays and all just within the group. They're really cool little fish.
Either way you'll have a fun, active tank. Obviously, my two favorite shellies are brevis and multifasciatus!
optix
05-26-2003, 12:03 PM
OK Jayhawk which of the two would refer out of brevis and multi. to start with?? This is going to be my first experience ever with shellies. Im thinking of going ahead and putting my cories I have in a 10 gallon in the 20 with a pair of ram's and doing a pair of shellies in my 10 by themselves with maybe a couple white clouds as you suggested.
Jayhawk
05-26-2003, 12:28 PM
For a 10, either brevis or multis would work. If you want dithers in the 10 though, brevis would be your best choice. Multis will claim all of a 10 gallon tank. Alone they'd be great.
For brevis, if you can tell you have a male and female (males are larger, more colorful and honestly look tougher than the females), a pair of brevis with some dithers up top makes a great 10 gallon tank. Put in 3-4 snail shells (escargot shells, old apple snail shells, larger hermit crab shells), sand or crushed coral for the substrate, and you'll have a great tank. You can often find pairs of brevis at the LFS because they will hide in the same shell together.
For the multis, get 4. Unless they are adults, they are impossible to sex (males are just larger when full grown). Have 2 shells per fish, sand or crushed coral again...you won't need any dithers to make the tank more exciting. They're constantly digging, etc...
You mentioned this will be your first shellie tank. Both brevis and multis are easy, tough and fun. Brevis are terrible parents and eat their fry. Multis are unbelievably good parents, nearly all the fry will survive, and you can trade them in at almost any LFS for credit so you'll never need to pay for food, etc...again.
I'd go for whichever you can find most easily.
Ok im ready to do the rams and shellies but I have a couple more questions. Is it ok if I use a fine gravel substrate for the 10 gallon because I have a gravel substrate in an already cycled tank and besides that a 10 gallon is not worth the hassle to me dealing with sand. And the ram question is what type of decorations would you use for them. clay flower pots?? Driftwood?? Of course plants but what else??
EDIT: Also where online would you guys suggest I pick up some of these guy's I would really really like some wild blue ram's. I want neo. multi. shellies
Jayhawk
05-29-2003, 6:28 AM
Optix, I've never bought fish online, so I'm not much help there. Also, my computer died about 2 months ago so I lost some favorites I had, that included two big online shops that sold Tanganyikans so I don't have their links anymore. However, I think their names were Armkes and Wet Thumb Aquatics (one's in Texas, the other Michigan if I recall correctly).
As for fine gravel substrate, how fine is it? If it's as fine as large sand, then I think you're fine. If it's a little larger, Brevis, who dig less, won't care. But mutlis really do best with a substrate the size of sand - they live to dig, and their mouths are small. If you're worried about sand and your filter, I've never had a problem. Children's play sand works well as does pool filter sand or sandblasting sand (just rinse well). I use crushed coral sand from the LFS, but it does cost like $20 for a bag, but my KH is only 1 out of the tap so I like the buffering I get from it. You might be able to find Southdown Play Sand at your local Home Depot (certain parts of the country stock this play sand, it's argonite, costs $5.00 for a 50 pound bag and is every bit as good as my fancy crushed coral because that's what it is, too!).
ChilDawg
05-29-2003, 7:10 AM
Optix, if you want the wild Rams, www.aquariumstuffers.com has them for cheap right now.
Thanks for the info guys. I will go ahead with the sand jayhawk I just had a very frustrating experience with my 55 gallon using silica sand that drove me up the wall but it was because I didn't do a very thorough job of getting the dust out. I'll be more patient with the next bag :). Thanks for the info on the ram's too chil, im on there now hehe.
EDIT: ok are you guys sure the ram's will be ok in my ph?? especially wild caught one's I seriously have like 7.8-8.4 ph goin on here and im not gonna buy a fish that I'll just end up killing. Is there any way I can lower my ph significantly to keep them but keep it stable, I know I can use peat in my filter but that doesn't seem very stable. If you guys think I'll be ok because my Ph is very stable right now then let me know, but if not let me know that too.
Jayhawk
05-29-2003, 6:00 PM
You know with sand, a great way to wash it is to put it in a pillow case, and rinse it for a very long time. That's what I do. You rinse it, kind of knead the case with wet sand in it to move it around, and just keep rinsing until in rinses clear. This is best done in the old bathtub so you can get a strong flow of water running over the sand and pillow case.
As for the rams, being wild caught, I might be nervous, too. Bolivian rams would to much better with your pH. Wild caught blue rams, well, I'd see what pH water they're currently being kept in. If the pH is close to yours, they'll probably be OK, otherwise you might be better off buying rams bred in your area in your pH levels.
Lots of good advice there jayhawk. Thanks a bunch.