1st tank cycle - searched

[adstudio3d]

Ok, so this is my first tank and I'm trying to get the nitrogen cycle going...
I started the tank but the people at the LFS were not very helpful and gave me no information before buying my fish about cycling the tank so I'm learning as I go.

Info:
I have 4 fish in the tank
Columbian shark cat
2 bala sharks
1 irridescent shark
1 common pleco
(I know the problems here, LFS said they would all get along and be fine in my 30g... I'll be picking up a 120gal and a 90gal for brackish when i can find one for a good price)

Latest test results:
Amonia - 0.25 (originally 4ppm did a 50% water change, stayed at 0.25ppm for 3 days after water change)
Nitrite - about 2 (did not change after 50% water change)
Nitrate - 40 (It was at 10, second day dropped to 5, and today shot up to 40)

I'm just looking for some help on getting my tank fully cycled. I am using an old cartridge from a friends established tank and live plants.

Any help would be appreciated, thanks

[Nolapete]

It sounds like you're on the right track. Keep monitoring the ammonia and nitrites until they show 0. Keep doing the water changes. Get some Prime. You can dose up to 5x at once to detoxify the ammonia and nitrite between water changes. With the old cartridge to seed your tank and live plants, your cycle should be done soon. My 110 only took 5 days.

[mellowvision]

yeah, in terms of plants, try throwing a handfull of duckweed on the surface. it's supposed to really suck up the junk!

[adstudio3d]

Thanks for getting back to me. I also thought the cycle was almost finished, but have not seen the amonia or nitrite levels drop to 0 yet...

Does the "Nitrate Boom" signify the rapid growth of bacteria that convert nitrite into nitrate, or does this just mean there is too much waste and I need a water change?

The tank has been going for 2 weeks now, only 1 week with the aged filter cartridge.

[Nolapete]

Feed lightly until it shows 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite. All the food should be gone in 1-3 minutes.

Fish produce waste/ammonia then
bacteria convert ammonia to nitrite then
bacteria convert nitrite to nitrate

Increase in ammonia causes increase in bacteria to consume it and so on with nitrite. Once the bacteria catch up and are able to handle the ammonia and nitrite levels the tank is cycled.

"Nitrate boom" is sort of a rapid growth in nitrate producing bacteria, but is as a result of the bioload aka more poop in the tank.

Water changes should keep your nitrates 10 ppm or under. Levels over that indicate a need for a water change.

[Aphotic Phoenix]

Water changes should keep your nitrates 10 ppm or under. Levels over that indicate a need for a water change.

It should be noted that some people have up to 20 ppm of Nitrates in their own tap water. 20 ppm is okay, but of course the less the better. Your live plants will consume some of the nitrates as well.

[sharkmatt]

You're doing fine. The rise in nitrates does indicate the presence of nitrobacter (the bacteria that convert nitrite into nitrate) which is a good sign. You're well on the way to finishing the cycle in this tank. So far as water changes go you need to continue doing regular water changes and monitor the fish in between for any signs of stress. The signs of stress will generally include:

1. Fish scratching (sometimes called flashing) on rocks, wood or substrate.
2. Fish constantly going to the surface to gulp air.
3. Fish clamping their fins (pulling their fins close into their body)
4. Fish being generally lethargic and refusing to eat.

If you're fish show any of these signs I would do a minimum 25% water change a.s.a.p. Excessive ammounts of water changes during cycling will slow the cycling process marginally but this is preferable to sick or even dead fish!

I have a couple of questions for you.

Where did you place the aged filter cartridge? This may seem like a stupid question but alot of people just put it in the aquarium which isn't as effective as putting it in the filter.

What is the pH in the tank? The reason I ask is that ammonia becomes a lot more toxic at higher pH's. If you're tank pH is higher than 7 (neutral) you need to be aware that you're fish may be at greater risk. It's not significant but worth noting.

Hope all this helps you and doesn't overwhelm you too much.

In the future i'd suggest you don't take the advice of your lfs as guarenteed to be good or even useful. They are a business and too many of them will tell you what you want to hear in order to sell you more fish. If you purchase a bigger tank, which would be a very good idea imho, please look into 'fishless cycling'. This method is a lot easier and is a lot better for our little fishy friends.

Please don't think I'm having a go here, I'm just trying to save you and your fish some unnecessary stress and pain.

Good luck,

Shark.

[Rbishop]

Water changes during cycling WILL NOT AFFECT THE CYCLE!

[adstudio3d]

Thanks for the responses!

The aged cartridge is in the filter with the new cartridge right next to it so I get all the bacteria in the new one at the same time.
The PH is at 7.2
Temperature is at 79

So far I have not noticed any of those signs of stress, but my columbian shark was doing laps at the top of the tank like superman non stop for the first couple days of the cycle, but now he is much more comfortable, swimming around the bottom and occasionally everywhere else. besides the irridescent, they all eat like a family of overweight cows that didn't eat for weeks. I never really see the irredescent eat... I tried bloodworms, shrimp, slow sinking pellets, algea discs, and some other food.

[sharkmatt]

Large water changes remove the ammonia and nitrites that the bacteria feed upon and therefore changing water, will to some degree affect the speed of the cycle. However as I alluded to, changing water is a necessity and therefore takes presedence over this.

Sorry if this was not clear.

Shark.

[sharkmatt]

Everything sounds like it's fine here. Keep doing what you're doing and you'll be cycled in no time!

[Rbishop]

Well, large or small, the bacteria have a natural set rate of reproduction. It doesn't matter whether you have .25 ppm of ammonia or 3 ppm of ammonia, it will only reproduce so fast. So a large one will not set you back.

[adstudio3d]

well, when I get home tonight I'm going to be doing a 50% water change and lighten my feeding a little bit. That Columbian shark can really eat tho! haha hoping to see a few 0's after this change and a day or two...

[Rbishop]

At some point we need to talk stocking...:grinyes:

[adstudio3d]

well, this was my idea...
I may be picking up a 75gal tomorrow.

75 gallon is going to be a brackish tank for my columbian and 3 monos (not the larger mono, the smaller ones)

the other fish will stay in this tank for a lil while until I can find a 120 or another cheap mid sized tank.

[adstudio3d]

I got into this not knowing anything, but going through this site and other information sites I'm learning pretty quickly what will work and what wont.

However, I have no idea about the irredescent shark. I've been too concerned looking up everything else he has kind of taken a backseat...

[adstudio3d]

Ok, so yesterday I did a waterchange and then tested again today:

Amonia = 0ppm
Nitrites = 0ppm
Nitrates = 10ppm
PH = 7.0

I think the cycle is done, will test in a couple days and make sure everything is still right.

Now I'm looking for a 75 - 100gal tank for a brackish setup.

rbishop - so lets talk stocking any ideas? I posted what I wanted to do with the brackish tank above, any ideas for the FW tank?

[Rbishop]

Well, you have balas, they have a medium growth rate and get very large. They are also somewhat skittish and have been known to break glass tanks. That leaves few options except a thick walled, very large tank.

If your plecos are commons, they can also become a 2 foot nightmare in a short time and are heavy waste producers.

For those being in a 30 gal right now, I would suggest finding them new homes.

[Hooked Newbie]

1. Fish scratching (sometimes called flashing) on rocks, wood or substrate.
2. Fish constantly going to the surface to gulp air.
3. Fish clamping their fins (pulling their fins close into their body)
4. Fish being generally lethargic and refusing to eat.



5. Floating fish in the morning that were displaying none of the above symptoms.

[crharvel]

5. Floating fish in the morning that were displaying none of the above symptoms.

:rofl:

Too often this is the case!