Newbie

[hunk]

Hi everyone

I would like to find out ho wto test for nitrates and nitrites and or ammonia. I seems confused by all these chemistry.

I have been using a test kit for nitrite level in my newly set up sw tank with about 9lbs of LR and natural sea water. My test kit keeps showing nitrite level to be 0.1mg/l no doubt I've got a whole load of marine fishes inside.

23 blue damsels, 3 clowns, 1 yellow tang and 6 turbo snails.

Is the reading alright for my tank. I heard form the dealer that the ammonia will rise to a very high level before coming down but mine don't seems to happen.

By the way, how frequent should I take my NO2 test? I am not sure what is cabornate hardness and I tink I have made a lot of mistakes in this tank cos out of 23 damsels only halr remained, the rest disappear, I cant even find their carcasses. What is the reason?? Pls help. Thanks

[ChilDawg]

Nitrites should always be non-detect. You're in the second stage of cycling.

[Corax]

What size tank are we talking about? 23 damselfish are NOT apropriate for anything less than a 100 or 125g, and even then I'd hesitate to put that many agressive fish together.

You have nitrite and ammonia because you have only 9lbs of liverock in what is probably a big tank. You need at least 1lb of rock per gallon of water.

Did you cycle the tank before you put the fish in it? Based on what you are saying, I'm guessing you didn't.

My very best suggestions for you at this point would be to:
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Take those fish back to the store that sold them to you and...
Cycle your tank properly.
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Once the fish are all out (DO NOT DO THIS WITH ANY FISH IN THE TANK!) put raw cocktail shrimp in there to provide a huge ammonia spike. This will take about 4 weeks, probably less because you already have a partial cycle going.

Then, before you purchase any more fish, learn about what is called the nitrogen cycle. It will help you understand where ammonia, nitrite and nitrate come from and how to keep them under control.

Feel free to ask any questions as I know this subject can be technically challenging at first. We've all been there, and you'll get through it =)

[kreblak]

23 damsels in one tank... I hope you are prepared to start losing fish. Whoever told you that was an acceptable bioload was way off their rocker. Damsels are extremely territorial fish, and even if you do have a 100+ gallon tank, 23 of them are going to cause problems. Plus, clownfish are closely related to damselfish, which means your three clowns are going to be fighting with the damsels.

Corax speaks the truth about the amount of live rick you need. The recommended amount is 1.5 to 2 lbs per gallon, with 1 lb per gallon the minimum. What type of substrate do you have? With the bioload you've got, you should have a deep sand base of at least 4 inches.

Finally, you should have cycled the tank properly before adding the fish. Ammonia is extremely toxic to sw fish, and you can expect to start seeing some deaths within the next two weeks as your ammonia levels spike. Fishless cycling with cocktail shrimp is the easiest method of kick starting your nitrogen cycle. The way you are currentlly set up is going to cause a lot of stress on your fish, and that is going to lead to stress induced diseases such as Ich and velvet.

Get a sw aquaria guide for beginners. Barron's publishes 4 really good (and easy to understand) guides for about $7 or$8 each. Any reputable book store should carry them...as should your local fish store. If you have specific questions, please feel free to ask as we are here to help, and try reading the posts on this newbie forum going back about 90 days or so. There are some good ones for beginners.

[hunk]

I would like to thanks everyone for your kind replies. I am sorry, you might seems surprise but I am really new here. I don't even know what substrates are?

By the way, right here in Singapore, fishes sold are not returnable. Therefore, I am really stuck in between. The size of my tank is L36" B 18" and H 24". I have a sump tank underneath. However, I do not know how many gallons of sw I have.

I am using crush corals and bio balls for my sump as a filter. Plesae teach me if there is any other way out? I have stopped adding fishes in my tanks and only about 10 of the original 23 damsels are around, as for the other 13, they simply DISAPPEAR!!!! No carcasses can be found. On top of that, I have 2 anemones.

Despite the bio load, my nitires are reading 0.1mg/l. i would like to know if this is desirable? If I would like to add corals may I know when is the right time to do it?

Am I right in saying that when the nitrites level is zero means my water condition is stable? Please take note that I still have fishes swimming inside my tank, if there is an ammonia spike why didnt all my fish die? If there wasnt an ammonia spike why didnt it occur when its suppose to do so with such a huge bio load?

Do you think it is appropraite to have change of water about 10% weekly? I am looking forward in hearing form you guys soon. Thank you very much guys.

[OrionGirl]

Substrate--the stuff on the bottom of the tank--sand, crushed coral, most likely.

You tank is about 65 gallons--meaning you have probably about 60 gallons of water. This is going to cause some serious problems for your fish--too close of quarters.

For filtration, the bacteria that live in live rock are the best way to go. They utilize the wastes of fish for energy, without messing with the other chemistry of the water, and are self renewing, so much cheaper than many of the products sold to remove ammonia and nitrites.

The missing damsels have been eaten--fish will cannabalize, and the anemones will gladly snack on fish as well. The anemones will need watching--most desirable species tend to be short lived in an aquarium, and their needs (food and light) are hard to get just right.

For ammonia and nitrites: Ammonia spikes will not kill every thing--some fish are hardier, and more able to tolerate the problems associated with these spikes (burned gills, reduced slime coating, suppressed immune functions). As the fish die and are consumed, the ammonia load reduces, so the survivors get a bit cleaner water than before. A fully cycled tank will have no detectable ammonia or nitrites, and nitrates of less than 30.

Do not add corals until the tank is cycled, and you have the appropriate lighting to support them. Regular, strip lights will not provide enough light for any photosynthetic corals.

Until the tank is cycled, I would do much larger water changes, say 25-40% weekly. This will dilute the pollutants, and minimize, though not eliminate, the damage to the fish.

If possible, you should get a book--there's a list at the top of this forum with some good ones.

[kreblak]

Yeah, 55 or 65 gallons sounds right for the tank dimensions you described. The 13 damsles that have dissapeared are dead. Their tankmates probably ate the bodies, or the anemones got to them. I'm surprised that the tangs and clownfish have held up this long, to be honest. Tangs require excellent water quality.

Anyway, things in the tank will get better. Since you cannot return the fish, give it time, and let the survivors adjust to the tank. Keep taking water quality readings, and when you have zero for ammonia and nitrites then your cycle is complete. The fish you currently have are more than a full bioload for a sw tank of your size.

Doing 10% weekly water changes will be a big help. If you have been doing them all along, then that is probably the reason that you still have some fish left alive. Water changes are good for reducing toxin levels in the tank. I would also think about adding some more live rock. Fish like hiding places, so creating a system of caves out of your live rock makes things much more pleasant for your fish.

Just a side note, with the amount of fish you have had die, I would be looking very closely at the living fish in the tank. Look for small (size of a pin head) white spots on the body, fins, and gills. This is Ich, a parasite which takes hold on fish with supressed immune systems. Most likely it was the ammonia spike which killed the fish, but it always helps to be cautious.