cloudy water - zero ammonia

[surf city baby]

:confused: :confused: :confused:
The water in my 12 gal. is consistenly cloudy, has been for about a week. I have zero ammonia and zero nitrites, too.
:confused:

Fish seem healthy & happy. No dead stuff in the tank. I'm careful not to overfeed.

More info:

I recently introduced live plants, for the first time ever in fishkeeping (meaning, I know very little about them yet). One of them, hornwort, sheds a lot.

In the filter I find scads of brown spooge -- algae? It's also on the biowheel, this slimy brown stuff. (Except for what's described below* the biowheel has never had globby goop on it before.)

I get no algae on the glass. I do get a growth of white fuzz on the glass, though.

The filter intake grate is invariably covered with stuff too big to get through -- what the hornwort has shed, and other detrius that's coming from god knows where. I take it out every couple of days & rinse it off.

:confused: Any thoughts on[list=a]
why the water is cloudy?
what the brown gunk is in the filter and on the biowheel?
what the white fuzz is that grows on the glass?
what I can do to stop there being so much large debris that can't get through the intake screen?
[/list=a]

Thanks.

*You may remember, I recently broke the tank down & cleaned it thoroughly due to a nasty infestation of gammarus. The biowheel was covered with their slimy brown stuff, as was everything else. I rinsed & scraped the biowheel off along with everything else. I was surprised, it only took the aquarium about two weeks to cycle fully again.

[Anaxus]

What type of filtration do you have? How long has the tank been setup? My water usually seems cloudy when looking at the tank from the side, I beleive my problem is due to a sponge filter I placed in my eclipse system being to porus and not fitting 100%.

edit - I noticed in your tank listing you also use a eclipse system. Do you use the filter pads specially designed for it or a sponge? When was the last time you cleaned the pads? If they material has to much debri water could flow over the overflow barriar and particles could not be removed.

[surf city baby]

Originally posted by Anaxus
What type of filtration do you have? How long has the tank been setup? My water usually seems cloudy when looking at the tank from the side, I beleive my problem is due to a sponge filter I placed in my eclipse system being to porus and not fitting 100%.
I use what came with the Eclipse "System Twelve" set up. The biowheel, the Eclipse filters that fit.

Originally posted by Anaxus
Do you use the filter pads specially designed for it or a sponge? When was the last time you cleaned the pads?
Yes, I use Eclipse filter cartridges; no, I don't use a sponge. I replaced the filter last night when I did the latest water change. I also took out the hornwort plants and rinsed the debris off of them, then cut them down by about half.

Anyone? Any ideas or suggestions? Please. Thanks.

[Anaxus]

Was it cloudy before you changed the filter also?

[wetmanNY]

s.c.baby, your cloudiness is from bacteria and the microscopic plankton. (As you know, ammonia doesn't cause cloudiness.) Your tank has partially recycled since you tore it down (zero ammonia), but the plankton community is still in an uproar. The hornwort sheds in soft water especially. The "spooge" is detritus from the decaying plant tissue-- it never was coming from the harmless Gammarus-- keep up the cleaning regimen.

On the biowheel,the brown is biofilm: that's a major part of your biofilter there. Rinsing and scraping the biowheel was an error. You're not meant even to touch the folded papery sections. Rinse your filter inserts in aquarium water whenever you have upsets like this, but don't replace media until your water has cleared.

Self-inflicted wounds heal swiftly!

[125gJoe]

Also, you can get the Vortex filter.. There are 2 sizes, the XL and the D-1. The D-1 is for smaller tanks. This filter will clean out the smallest of particles, giving you crystal clear water.....

[scott]

I would consider my water pretty clear. How noticeable is the difference with the diatom? Can you tell if you don't use it for a period of time? Is it worth the money? Thanks.

[surf city baby]

Originally posted by wetmanNY
Your tank has partially recycled since you tore it down (zero ammonia), but the plankton community is still in an uproar. The hornwort sheds in soft water especially. The "spooge" is detritus from the decaying plant tissue-- it never was coming from the harmless Gammarus-- keep up the cleaning regimen.
I introduced live plants after getting rid of the "harmless" gammarus. I know what havoc the critters wrought on my aqu., and I agonized over the decision to kill them.

Originally posted by wetmanNY
On the biowheel,the brown is biofilm: that's a major part of your biofilter there. Rinsing and scraping the biowheel was an error.
Oooo-kay. Tell me, then, why the biowheel was a dark shade of brownish-gray, but never had any of this gunk on it, for the first eight months the aqu. was living (i.e., for at least six months in a fully cycled aqu.). It accumulated its apx. 1/4 in. of the gunk after the gammarus were introduced. I do know exactly when that was.

I'm not a moron, wetman. I knew I'd be destroying part of the biofilter. I'd think that would be obvious from my previous statement about the tank re-cycling after breaking it down.

Thank you for the info re bacteria/plankton and hornwort. I'm thinking of going back to fake plants; I'm not sure I have the patience (or tolerance for my learning curve) to keep up with live plants.

I realize you may not have intended to be condescending; intended or not, condescension's never gone over real big with me. Nevertheless I appreciate the other portions of your input.

[wetmanNY]

Tell us more about the havoc Gammarus (aka scuds) wrought on your aquarium, surf city baby, that brought you to the agonizing decision. What was the nature of the harm they caused? We thrive on information here. I don't want to go on thinking these little amphipods are harmless and interesting if they aren't. They don't survive well for me in my very very soft water, anyway. In a planted aquarium they have a role like snails, and like some snails, when populations get out of hand, there can be some damage to plant leaves. But you say you introduced live plants after getting rid of the Gammarus. Here's an interesting anecdote from the Live-Foods Digest: http://fins.actwin.com/live-foods/month.9904/msg00006.html

But Gammarus are mostly shredders, breaking down detritus. They don't create the spooge, they prepare it for fungi and bacteria to break it down further...

When I posted that " Rinsing and scraping the biowheel was an error," that was a plainspoken statement, considering your predicament. Not condescending. Scarcely tinted by opinion, even.

[TomFromStLouis]

When I read this thread I detected no patronizing tone on Wetman's part. I thought his post was a clear recitation of facts as he saw them in words that anyone can understand. He does not know your knowledge level and so made it clear enough that even I could understand.

That is why I read his posts - I always learn something. I have never detected an attitude other than that chelated irony thing. If you are that sensitive, you'd better ask harder questions or make it clear what you DO understand.

Peace

[surf city baby]

Originally posted by wetmanNY
Tell us more about the havoc Gammarus (aka scuds) wrought on your aquarium. . . . When I posted that " Rinsing and scraping the biowheel was an error," that was a plainspoken statement, considering your predicament. Not condescending. Scarcely tinted by opinion, even.

Wetman, I apologize for jumping all over you. I have no excuse. When I read your comment that my gross brown goop problem was from "decaying plant tissue" I got an attitude, since I had no live plants when I had the Gammarus. I got a little hot. I'm sorry.

But I still don't know if this gloppy brown goop is really normal. My last water change was Sunday. When I rinsed out the grate that goes over the intake tube (in my set up this is a little box about the size of a pager), tons of that glop came plopping out into the sink. And I've attached a photo of the biowheel, taken just before I put the whole filter assembly back into the aquarium. I didn't even touch it this time, so it still looks like this. But I'm skeptical that this glop really is part of the biofilter.

Now: I don't have as big a brown goop problem as I did before I got rid of the Gammarus. The aquarium was choked. And I had no live plants. Can you see why I assumed -- not having had the problem before I introduced the fish that the Gammarus must've tagged along with -- that it was their "fault?"

I hope you'll accept my apology and help, if you can. Anyone. Please help a humbled novice. :)

[TomFromStLouis]

That certainly does not look normal. Looks like you've been mixing up some chocalate icing with your biowheel.

Easy to see how this situation could throw you off your game. i'll be watching for the solution.

[125gJoe]

That is a sick and 'un-normal' bio-wheel.. ! :eek:

[125gJoe]

Originally posted by scott
I would consider my water pretty clear. How noticeable is the difference with the diatom? Can you tell if you don't use it for a period of time? Is it worth the money? Thanks.

scott - sorry for not answering - I was on a fishing/boating vacation....

I think everyone should have a diatom filter, but I know how budgets can be.... I more than pleased with my Vortex XL. ;)

Here's a link to a Vortex in use.. Vortex Diatom Filter (http://digitalaquaria.tripod.com/vortex.htm)

[kveeti]

I'm not going to be of any help to you, surf city baby, but I have to say that your picture should win some sort of gross award. It's a very clear gross picture. Good camera.

edit... Even if unwise, personally if I had that, I would clean it off... maybe not scrape but definitely a good swishing... Can doing that really be any more harmful than rinsing out filter sponges? I don't know anything about bio-wheels, though.

[michelliot]

That's a pretty intense concentration of something especially considering it has estabilished itself AFTER the water went through the rest of the filtering processes.

Any science labs nearby?

Good luck,

Elliot •¿•

[OrionGirl]

That looks like a huge abundance of biofilm, to me. In such concentration, no, it isn't normal, but I don't think it's harmful. There must be something in your water that the microfauna is gorging on.

Does the bio-wheel still turn normally? Did I understand that this is elsewhere in the tank? What kind of substrate/decorations are in there? Fish? There are lot of things in a tank that we don't normally see, but I am thinking that if you looked at that goop under a 'scope, you would find it writhing with life quite normal to a tank, just not in these quantities.

[KateA.]

:eek: OMG! That is the grossest thing I've seen! And I've seen some pretty bad, goopy, stinky filters in my time!!! I have nothing further to add about the cause or if it's bad. If that were my bio-wheel, I would be tempted to gently dunk it a few times in a bucket of tank water to knock the chunks off. At some point it might prohibit the wheel from spinning properly, but I would wait till the tank clears and settles a bit more.