Help! My cichlids are dying! pH shock???

[mbunaluvr]

Just got a new tank up and running, read everywhere that mbuna cichlids prefer a higher pH and crushed coral bottom (or sand...my hubby prefered coral). So I had everything set up, crushed coral bottom mixed with a little colored gravel (again hubby's idea) and nice rocks everywhere with lots of caves. I checked the pH in the new tank several times and it's around 7.5 pH. So, I switched my new cichlids over from their old tank and everything seemed fine.

Five hours later I come home and one is dead and the other is almost gone. It then occurs to me that it may have been too drastic of a change from the pH in their old tank (6pH...never occured to me to check it before I switched them) to the new tank.

What can I do to save my fish? :help: I don't know what the pH was like in the fish store...maybe he's never experienced his 'natural' pH conditions????

Even if he dies and I get more...what's the best way to acclimate them to their new home? Should I get rid of the crushed coral and go back to a lower pH?

My red zebra is lying on the bottom gasping for air...what should I do?????
Thanks!:help:

[soobie]

First things first- Is the new tank cycled?

[mbunaluvr]

Yes...it's been running for two days. I had my Oscar in there (just gravel on bottom) and then he upgraded to a 55gallon....so I got some crushed coral and rocks for my two cichlids, let it run for two days empty (same filter as when Oscar was in) and then put them in this morning and everything seemed fine. Went out for a few hours and when I came back one was dead and the other is dying fast.

I'm thinking it's pH related since they went from around a low 6pH to a 7.5ph???? It never occured to me to check their exsisitng pH in their old tank, I'm such an idiot! I was so concerned about getting a mid 7pH set up in the new tank for them to replicate their natural conditions!!! HELP!

[UCF-Planted]

does indeed sound like a pH related issue if there was circulation, a beneficial bacteria colony well established in the tank and a reasonable temperature. I don't know if there is much you can do for the affected fish other than hope he recovers. In the future you want to move the fish in a volume of their original water and mix in some of the new water every 10 minutes or so until the water is mostly new water. You can also use an airline with a knot (to slow down the flow to a drop or 2 per second) to syphon water into the container with the fish being moved. Start the container the fish is in at about half full and let it fill to about 3/4 and then pour it off back down to half. Repeat a couple times (should take a couple hours to do this if the drip is at the right speed.) and then release the fish who should be nicely adapted. I think fish can adjust pretty fast, it's dropping them straight in that causes the devastating shock.

[mbunaluvr]

Thanks for your help UCF Planted! When I get new fish, I will definetly acclimate them to the higher pH.

Do you really think it's the pH even though it took them about 5 hours before they started dying? I can't imagine what else it might be...but I would've thought it would've effected them right away since it was such a shock going from a 6pH to a 7.5pH.

Has anyone else had issues w/fish dying related to a change in pH?

Thanks again for all of your help!

[Star_Rider]

pretty close on the drip acclimation..but start take a look at drip acclimation at saltwaterfish.com....you can use the same technique with freshwater fish. the process should take nearly 4 hours and the fish will eventually be swimming in the new tank water.

[scott-kim]

You have checked nitrite and ammonia in the new tank? Was there a big difference in temp between the 2 tanks? You put in crushed coral and some rocks after the oscar was taken out. They werent rocks you found in your yard and you rinsed evreything well before putting them in your tank? Its possible there was a toxin on something you introduced. If your cichlids die get some cheap, hardy fish ( tiger barb ) and see how it does.

[Rbishop]

Why was the pH so low in the old tank? Is that what your tap water is?

i would add an airstone and start some serious water changes.

[MbunaFishKeeper]

well when i cycled my mbuna tank i cycled it with a mesh bag of prawns for 4 weeks after about 3 days when the prawns started rotting i put in another mesh bag with gravel in from another tank which is already cycled for the bacteria, have you checked the nitrite etc also my ph is 8.2 and have you got any rock work for caves my tank has 25kg of ocean rock in it.

also sorry to here about your losses

[Coler]

Yes...it's been running for two days. I had my Oscar in there (just gravel on bottom) and then he upgraded to a 55gallon....so I got some crushed coral and rocks for my two cichlids, let it run for two days empty (same filter as when Oscar was in) and then put them in this morning and everything seemed fine. Went out for a few hours and when I came back one was dead and the other is dying fast.

I'm thinking it's pH related since they went from around a low 6pH to a 7.5ph???? It never occured to me to check their exsisitng pH in their old tank, I'm such an idiot! I was so concerned about getting a mid 7pH set up in the new tank for them to replicate their natural conditions!!! HELP!

two days wouldn't be enough to cycle from scratch.

check your ammonia & nitrite to make sure no other parameter is causing problems.

going straight from Ph 6 to Ph 7.5 would be sufficient to cause osmotic shock unfortunately :(

if you have ammonia/nitrite ideally you would dose Prime to detoxify as opposed to doing a further water change at this point. If you don't have Prime I would do a water change anyway, if you have ammonia/nitrite above .25ppm

otherwise its a case of wait and see & hope for the best. turn off the tank lights, turn off the room lights, maybe even cover the tank with a towel to give them as little stress as possible.

edit : you asked if anyone has had fish die from Ph/shock issues - yes unfortunately, I lost a lovely yellow lab by not doing a proper accimitisation, moving from water at 8.2 in LFS to 7.8 in my tank.

[wataugachicken]

no. . . she had the oscar in the tank. when she upgraded the oscar to a bigger tank, she decided to move the cichlids to what had been the oscar tank. it was cycled already from the oscar living in it, and she left the filter on it, all she changed was the substrate - from gravel to a crushed coral/gravel mix. two days isn't long enough for the bacteria to die off, so the tank was still cycled. that is not the issue. the PH change is the problem, but i don't know what to do about that.

[Nolapete]

Although, it wasn't from scratch using the filter from while the oscar was in, when you removed the old gravely you also removed a large amount of the biological filtering capabilities of the tank. They don't just reside in the filter. There's two issues:

1) pH (osmotic) shock
2) insufficient biological filter to handle the bio load

It's a lesson that everyone has to learn no matter how many times we're told. It's one you'll most likely never forget because it's a painful one.

Sorry for your losses. Don't give up.

[mbunaluvr]

Thanks to all for your advise and great suggestions. I don't have any way to test the nitrates/ammonia right now so I'll have to do that before I get more fish. Currently the tank is empty with only two snails (which did fine through the pH change).

[Coler]

good idea on the test kit - without that you're really only presuming/guessing that the cycle is functioning.

sorry about your fish loss :(

[elementkid65]

the guy i bought my cichlids off has a p.h 7 (mine too)
so i slowly added p.h up powder every few days and now its 8.2-4

[Cyp_Lover]

Fish will die real fast from PH fluctuations. I had a pair of Brichardi die from a rapid PH fluctuation in less then 4 hours when I first started buying my own fish (before I knew about PH).

[mademperor]

If I buy fish at the Local Fish store, is it enough to just float the bag for like 15 minutes before I put them in my aquarium?

My PH is quite hard, around the 8.0-8.2ish range. I'm told most of Buffalo has really hard water so the local fish store is most likely the same ph idk.

[wataugachicken]

you might want to go out and buy a pH test kit so you can be sure. if the pH is the same at your house and the store (you have to ask them what the pH is there - some stores like to modify their water) then floating the bag to equalize temperature is enough, at the minimum. it is still a good idea to acclimate longer, and slowly add tank water to the bag water so the fish can adjust to it anyway.

when you ask questions, it is best to start a new thread in the appropriate section. you may want to ask this question in a new thread to get more responses. welcome!