Fish/Fishless Cycle

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funnyhatryry

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Jun 1, 2003
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Ok, I bought a fish tank at about the beginning of May. I set everything up, rocks, a action skeleton thing, a old ship (plastic thing) and one fake plant. Plus it has a Penguin Mini Bio Wheel for the filter. Which I am told works really well. When I set up the tank I was missled when the instructions told me I only had to run the tank for a day then I could add fish. Well, I started adding fish the next day, only one to start. It was a dwarf gourami and it is still alive and doing fine right now. Then, a day or so later I added a Chinese Algae Eater (which I am going to return because I just found out it will be too big for my 10g tank). It is also alive and fine right now. BUT, I added some neon tetras about a week ago and the next day they all started to die. At first I thought it might have been the neon tetra disease but I asked my local fish store and they said it was probably the ammonia level. I just found that out and it's the first of June. So I'm not sure what exacily to do. I have a friend that could hold onto my fish for me until I'm done cycling it but I'm not sure how to go about the cycle and everything. Is there anyone that could help me out here? I would appreciate it an enormous amount. You can give me a reply here or at my email address... funnyhatryry@yahoo.com

Thank you for reading this and any reply will be much appreciated.:D :mad: :mad: :eek: :eek: :confused:
 
1st of all..welcome to the board. You can start by reading all the "sticky" posts above this post..they contain a ton of info about cycling tanks. Also, here is a great link that explains how to "fishless" cycle.

http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquamag/cycle2.html
 
where there any marking on the neons before they died? neon tetra disease usually is marked by a white growth on the fishes back. there are many reasons why they may have died, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels, ph diffrences, dumb luck, you bought them ill, aggression, ok so -

1) where did you get the neons and do you trust them

2) how many did you get for the tank

3) did you happen to see the gourami picking on them

4) is the water conditions (ph) at the place you purchased them out very diffrent from yours?

5) where there any marks on the neons when they died

6) if you have a test kit, or can take your water to a fish store for testing what are your ammonia, and ph levels.


7) what temperature is the tank kept at.

with just the gourami in the tank i dont think it will be a problem with ammonia. i am gonna say it is most likley to be an aggresion thing from the gourami or shock from being introduced to your tank.

oh one last question, how long after you put them into the tanks was it before the neons died?

oh and welcome to the board! I hope we can get this sorted for you
:)
 
Fish/Fishless Cont.

No, there weren't any markings on the fish when they died, they just looked normal, like when they were alive, just dead.

I got the neons from a fish store close by and I do trust them a lot. I talked with them and there fish are just fine, they aren't dying off at all. So that's why I really think it's my water.

When I got them I got a pair of 6

The gourami never picked on them, it barely got close to them, I think it was intimidated by the other neons since it was outnumbered lol

I guess I really should borrow my friends water testing kits because I have no idea what the levels are for anything in my water. So I'm really thinking something in my water killed them, and I feel really bad about that

There weren't any marks on the fish when they died

The tank is kept between 73 & 79 degrees F with the help of a little submersibal heater.

The fish died a little bit after a day and a half of putting them in the tank

Thank you all for the nice welcome, I hope I get this taken care of too;)

Oh, and one more thing.... will I have to do anything different with my fishless cycle now that I've already had fish in the tank?
 
Theres your problem.
I bet your PH is off the charts.

Tetras are sensitive to PH and actually prefer a lil on the acid side - about 6.8 ideally.
They will be fine in 7.0 ph as well - which is about right for your tank, and a good level for the rest of your fish.
Gouramis are pretty tough fish - so it probably doesnt bother him so much - not to say he isnt feeling it.

Borrow your friends kit to test your water - but you really should buy a PH kit when you can. You definetly need it.

For the record - i never fishless cycled my freshwater tanks.

Dont feel bad - everyone makes mistakes.
 
Fish/Fishless Cycling

Hey,

So its probably the pH huh. Well thanks for the tip, I'm getting my friends kit tommorow and I will start on it then. Can I do all the pH testing and not hurt the fish? because i don't want to take the fish out if I don't have too. And what about the ammonia? is that still something that could be a threat? And you never did a cycle on your water? could i just work on the pH and not cycle and be ok? These are mainly questions for Awestralian, but I'd love to hear from everybody. Thank you very much
Ryan
 
to test pH you just need to take a very small sample of the water out, no damage at all to the tank/fish. making sure the pH is proper has nothing to do with the cycle, they're 2 different issues.
 
Yeah as Spirital Sniper said they are two different things.
Test the PH asap.
You may need to add a product called PH UP or PH DOWN (or similar) depending on your reading. If your friends kit does not have these - ask him if he has them seperatly and if you can borrow them for a bit. You will probably need them - and im guessing PH DOWN will be what you're after. If you do have to do this, DO IT SLOWLY. You dont want to move your ph more than 0.2units (or thereabouts) per day. Dont keep adding it all at once until you get the reading you want. This will either kill your fish or make them very ill.

As for the ammonia - buy yourself an ammonia test kit - or simply change 25% of your water to be safe.
Have you added a chemical to remove the chlorine from your tap water?!?
You will need to if you are adding new water.
 
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Please do not add either pH Up or pH Down. Both of these products have a wide variety of side effects, including algae blooms and they do not 'fix' the water, they provide a temporary shift in pH that must be maintained (with more chemicals). Without constant monitoring and additions, your pH will yo-yo, and that is much worse for fish than one which is slightly off, if properly acclimated. There are other, stable methods for altering water chemistry, but even those require quite a bit of effort and testing. But--you must know the pH, GH and KH before attempting any of those other options.

Further, the tank will cycle. The bacteria bed which deals with ammonia and nitrates will develop, even if you don't try to build one. The question comes down to if you expose your fish to toxic levels of these wastes or not. Fishless cycling avoids exposure, fish cycling does not, and requires daily testing and frequent water changes. Ammonia and nitrite concentration can be lethal, and result in burned gills and shortened life spans even at low levels.
 
One thing to consider is that there are better and worse fish to add to a new tank. THere seem to be a number of things that happen as tanks mature, some of them better understood (like getting nitrifying bacteria going) some of it less clear. Things like getting enough organics to chelate metals out of solution and so on.
Some fish can be plopped right into a new tank and be happy and perky. Others seem to do much more poorly, and I tend to let the tank run a few weeks or even months before adding them. I would class neons in the latter group.
This isn't science speaking, just experience, so take it FWIW.
And add a repetition of what OrionGirl said about pHup or down. In a well-run tank, pH should take care of itself. It's much more important that it be stable than to be at a specific value.
 
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