why can't i grow vallesnaria?

[TomFromStLouis]

This is embarassing. Here I install all the gear - injected CO2, 3wpg, ferts - and I can't grow an 'easy' plant like corkscrew val. I must have bought 30 or more of them because they were going to be a major part of the look. Each and every one did not survive the mail order arrival. However, maybe ten sent up new shoots and I thought all would be well.

It's not. The shoots have stopped growing and most are turning that sickly transparent dead. Some are still tough but yellowing. I have for the most part* kept N and P levels up (and I presume K). I dose KNO3, KCl, PO4 (Fleet), and Flourish Trace and Flourish Iron. Maybe I need more Isoetes - they are fine and give me the vertical lines I am after...

Are vals just so hungry that any temporary fert shortage would cause them to die? Are they poor at competing for ferts? Or is there one of those interplant chemical competition things going - I also have riccia, glosso, hairgrass, lysimachia, xmas moss, java fern, isoetes, crinum, cabomba, hygro, cardamine and maybe some others. Substrate is 40% Flourite.

* I thought I was dosing enough but measured near zero P and N just this weekend before my water change. Maybe I have not perfected dosages yet.

[GulfCstAquarian]

I'm experiencing much the same thing since I installed my High Pressure CO2 system. My PO4 and NO3 is also almost zero much of the time. I suppose that plants are consuming them too quickly with the abundant supply of CO2 (and light - 4wpg) so we need to step up the nutrient dosage.

[djlen]

Up the dosages but monitor closely. I use a lot more PO4 than NO3, but both will run down quickly it you don't keep up with them. The high wattages(40/gal.) really add to the depletion. That's why many people say the suggested dosages are just starting points and to tinker from there. Be happy, your plants are loving it!!!!!;)
As to the Vals......I've grown just about every green plant there is without much trouble, but I've got a couple of stands of Val right now that are just hanging on. I'm meeting all the requirements but for some reason they are tough for me as well. I've learned to go with what will perform in my tanks and leave the 'toughies' alone.
Len

[RTR]

Len - clarify please "40/gal"?

I consider Val one of the indestructibles... moderately hard water, moderate light (2-3W/gal.), little fert at lower end of light, routine but controlled at upper end. Under bright light for me it is fast and a nutrient sponge as a result.

[2ManyHobbies]

I would have to agree. I have a large amount of straight vall that grows like a weed. On the other hand, my corkscrew vall does very little and barely grows. It looks ok, just is not growing up or out.

[Aderynglas]

I have insanely soft water (KH 0 !!) and the only time I have been able to grow vallis (corkscrew and straight) was when the tank was adjusted with coral gravel and it grew rampantly :)
From what I have read vallisneria require a KH of 5-15 (Baensch) and slightly cooler water.

[djlen]

RTR, you catch me all the time. I meant 4/gal. as in 4 watts/gal.
I'm soooooooo old!!!!!!:(
I have never had trouble with Italian Val or any "straight" Vals. My achilles heel has always been Corkscrew Val. Don't know why.
Had them growing in the same tank. Never was able to do much with the Corkscrew variety.
BTW, RTR, do you know if there's a correlation between 'cooler' temps and success with this variety?
Len

[RTR]

LOL! I am just habituated to read for detail - I would have bet on 4/, but wanted to check - I have seen posts of = or > reef levels for FW plants.

I do use corkscrew only in shorter tanks and therefore smaller light losses with depth than taller tanks, also no issues as with the shading of the straight. I suspect the corkscrew is more light-demanding than the straight as it does not do well at the ends of 20-longs with 24" NO tubes for me, and that is not that great a drop in lighting intensity. I do love the effect of the straight, and so does the wife, so guess which I have way more of? I use the corkscrew only when I want some visual srceen without any barrier as you get with dense stands of the long form.

I don't have a big temp variance
anywhere I grow plants, so can't offer advice there. My tanks are warm 76-78 to warmer 80-82, with difference based on number of filters and lights.

[Faramir]

Tom - all my sources say that Vallis can't grow in very soft water. What's your KH/GH?

When I lived in Watford (GH > 35 I kid you not) it grew like a weed.

[TomFromStLouis]

My GH is around 120. I am not too sure where the decimal point goes in that number, but we have moderately hard to hard water here.

I just bought an a. ulvaceous and put it smack dab in the center of the corkscrew 'stand'. It is so beautiful I no longer care if I get that stuff to grow or not.:) If RTR is right about light needs I guess I just blocked what amount they got.

Thanks everyone for the help and advice. I am concluding that corkscrew val is on my list of plants that I don't need to consider. I try to be detail oriented and learn when I can, but I am moving forward and am just not going to sweat the small stuff.

[RTR]

Excellent attitude Tom, I strongly agree. I am not a plant guru, as I grow a limited selection of types and do not use high-light, high C02, high nutrient setups.

I do test new plants regularly - if they grow well for me and establish and multiply, then they become staples. If I try a species or cultivar a couple or three times and they do not do well under the conditions I provide, they are history. I am quite happy with things I do grow, and can set tank with them which please me. I welcome new plant materials, but I'm not going to change my fish or my tank practice to suit the plants, when I have a variety that do well under my conditions. BTW, Aponogeton ulvaceous is a favorite - and quite undemanding, except on space.

[beviking]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! You mean that C. val is a bit more demanding than other Vals? 2-3 w/gal? CO2 and ferts? All along I thought it was my bleach treatment that killed 4 out of 5 plants! Now I find the truth!! LOL! Would it be out of the ordinary if C. val did well in my tank? 4-32watt bulbs over 90 gal tank, mod. hard water, no CO2 or ferts. The one I have left has 5 new leaves from 1/2" to 1 1/2" long.??

[TomFromStLouis]

It is simply leading you down the path beviking. Don't trust that evil val! It will make you cling to hope, useless, empty hope, while it gets to a size where it ALMOST has the visual impact you desire.

Reminds me of the final scene in La Traviata. The sickly heroine is seemingly on her deathbed but when her hero arrives she revives to belt out one more aria. It is so beautiful and powerful you say to yourself, "Wow, maybe, just maybe we have here an opera without the heroine dying. She is going to live!" And then she dies.

[beviking]

Thanks for the warning TomFromStLouis! I'll certainly keep that in mind. Fortunately, I have your attitude about moving forward!

[Faramir]

Having heard (I think from RTR) that Lake Malawi has beds of some species of Vallis or other, I've moved some of my excess vallis to my Malawi tank.

It does look good, and so far the fish haven't dug it up - I think they've given up trying to dig stable pits in the fine sand substrate ;)

It's only 1 W/gallon in there, so I'm not going high tech. Just hope they'll survive, if not grow madly.

[RTR]

Faramir - the word I got is that the val in Malawi is a V. spirallis subspecies, but I don't remember the name.

[Faramir]

Ta RTR. Given that Vallis is originally from N Africa and Europe (according to Baensch anyway) I wonder if it's possible the Vallis is an introduction; but hey? It's still what you'd see if you went there, which is near enough biotope for me at this stage.