Clowdy Water, High Amonia that is not affected by Amolock. Please HELP!

[mashenka]

I recently restarted my acquarium (5 weeks ago) and everything seemed fine till I went to Petco and they tested my water and told me that I have very high levels of Ammonia. I have a 29 gallon. They equipped me with Amolock which I followed instructions and added every 2 days. Levels of ammonia did not decrease and I did partial water changes every week (sometimes even 2 times a week). Fish so far is fine, but I am very concerned about them. I barely feed them to make sure ammonia lowers.

Yesterday (after I changed 20% of water the day before) the water went completely clowdy. I went to the store again, they tested the water and amonia is still between 4.0-8.0 (I assume at least it is not toxic because of all the amolock). They also told me that my PH is now low (was fine before)- 6.4-6.6. They gave me a 7.0 PH balancer product to add to the water, which I did and tested that evening and the water seemed at the same low level.

They also told me that my filter with bio-wheel is probably crappy and told me to get a Whisper 40 with the bio sponge. I replaced the filter yesterday and did another 10% water change. They told me that the filter would be able to take care of this stuff on its own. (BTW, they told me to add amonia reducing crystals directly to the carbon filter bag, which I did). The water is even more clowdy.

Acquarium is superclean (valume the gravel each time), fish is barely fed (no waste), what am I doing wrong? I never had this problem before. I feel so sorry for my fish as this tank is now like a nuclear experiment with tones of chemicals in it. What should I do? I am scared that the fish will start dieing (if not already as I cannot see them all because of the clowdiness).

I have :
2 silver guramies (small)
2 gold guramies (small)
2 dwarf guramies
1 upside down cat fish
1 plactopus (sp?) - sucker (small)


Please help....

[mellowvision]

first thing you want to do is stop adding chemicals. they're not going to correct the problem, only make it harder to figure out. amolock, from what I've read, will not lower amonia levels. more water changes will, unless your tap water contains amonia.

what color is the cloudiness?

[Blueiz]

Amolock is effectively locking amonia into the non toxic to fish forum. The liquid test kits that you buy will still test positive for ammonia. You need an ammo alert when using amolock to test to see if you have the harmful form of ammonia in your tank.

This product works the same way amolock does. http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/AmGuard.html


They gave me a 7.0 PH balancer product to add to the water, which I did and tested that evening and the water seemed at the same low level.

You do not need this, unless you have a special fish that REQUIRES a certain ph, most community will adjust to there ph. Remember, a stable ph that is natural is better than a fluctuating one. If you would like to raise the ph of your water naturally, check out crushed coral or dolomite. THose are two materials that readily come to mind.


They also told me that my filter with bio-wheel is probably crappy and told me to get a Whisper 40 with the bio sponge. I replaced the filter yesterday and did another 10% water change.

The filter you had was just fine. Since you have removed your filter, you have removed all bacteria that had started to colonize in it and now will be starting your cycle all over again. A cycle takes 6-8 weeks on avg, and can take longer... The lfs got your money..exactly what it wanted.

If you havent already , purchase a liquid ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate test kit so you can test your own water. I reccomend aquairum pharmaceuticals brand. Stop adding all products to your tank except your water conditioner, what removes the chlrine and chloramine from you water. Do a 30 percent water change today, and a fifty percent tommorow. Test your water at this point, if you are still testing positive for ammonia or nitrites over .5 , do another fifty percent change. You are doing a fishy cycle, therefore you will have to change water daily to keep the levels low. Chnage enough to keep the ammonia and nitrite at or below .5. Change the water as often as needed. Feed lightly as you are already doing, and dont mess with your filter, unless it is just swishing the pad in tank water, while you are cycling.

Above all, you will have to have patience...:)

HTH
Blue

[mashenka]

Thank you for attention to my posting.

The clowdiness is very whitish haze.

Would such frequent water changes worsen the problem? I changed 10 percent yesterday and it became more hazy. By removing water, do I remove the bacteria (benefitial) out of the water as well? What do you mean I am doing a fishy cycle?


Thank you guys!

[Radar]

It kinda sounds like you are back to the very start of your cycle. By changing the filter out you removed all the bacteria that had started to grow in it.
And No by doing water changes it will not hurt the bacteria since most of the
bacteria lives in the filter. Fishy cycles are very hard on the fish and are a lot of work. I was totally green about fish keeping last fall when I set up my 29 gallon. I ended up doing two 50% water changes every day just to keep the ammonia and nitrItes down. Water changes are the best advice I can give you. I would not add any more chemicals to the water other than the to
remove the chlorines when doing water changes. It took me about 8 weeks to finally get thru the cycle. GOOD LUCK.

[GeoPappas]

What do you mean I am doing a fishy cycle?

A "fishy cycle" is doing a cycle with fish. A "fishless cycle" is doing a cycle without fish. See here for more details:

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84598

[mashenka]

Blueiz - so do I need to get the ammo alert and add amolock or amoguard according to what the readings are?

All are recommending water changes on a daily basis, do I need to add the benefitial bacteria like API to speed up the development of the filter?

What is that white hazy stuff? Is that a bacteria bloom?

[mashenka]

What type of water conditioner is the best? Also, when I do my water changes, do I just add enough for the water being added? Also, do I add directly to the water (I use 0.5 gal jug when refilling the acquarium) or to the acquarium? If I add to the water, how long do I have to wait before putting that water back into aquarium?

THis might sound stupid, but should I use the tap water or the water from britta filter?

Thanks all for your help and advice.

[mashenka]

Another question :) I am full of them today, what are the normal water readings on nitrites and nitrates and which are good nitrits or nitrates?

Thanks!

[Radar]

I use AmQuel when doing water changes and I have also heard a lot about Prime being a good water conditioner.
You only add the amount of water conditioner to the water that you are replaceing. Add it to the water before you put it in the tank.
I use a 3 gallon bucket , make sure the temp is the same as my tank water, I add about 4 drops of AmQuel, I stir it around a little and then pour it into my tank.
DO NOT put the water in the tank first and then add the conditioner, The chlorine's will kill what bacteria you do have.
Use just plain tap water.

[Blueiz]

so do I need to get the ammo alert and add amolock or amoguard according to what the readings are?


Since you are cycling, I would recomend doing the water changes. It is really a personal preference for you... I have used amo lock with no ill effects while cycling, and I have cycled without it.


What type of water conditioner is the best?


Prime


when I do my water changes, do I just add enough for the water being added? Also, do I add directly to the water (I use 0.5 gal jug when refilling the acquarium) or to the acquarium? I


If you are using a seperate bucket, which you indicate you are, add the dechlor to the bucket of water BEFORE adding it to your tank, only the amount needed to treat the amount of water in the buckte. If you were using a different method, such as a python, which put water directly in your tank, I would say add enough dechlor to treat the whole tank..


f I add to the water, how long do I have to wait before putting that water back into aquarium?

The dechlor works instantly, so there is no wait time. If it makes you feel more comfortable, you can wait a few minutes..


THis might sound stupid, but should I use the tap water or the water from britta filter?


I will say on this, IMO, it doesnt matter. For me, I would choose whichever method was easiest. Ex: If I were to half to unhook the britta filter, I would use it, as I am to lazy to unhook it and put it back..:)


All are recommending water changes on a daily basis, do I need to add the benefitial bacteria like API to speed up the development of the filter?

You dont need to add anything, as far as I have heard, biospira is the only bacteria additive that will do anything to help cycle a tank. The bacteia needed is already there, just needs to multiply to levels high enough for the bioload presented.



What is that white hazy stuff? Is that a bacteria bloom?


If the white haze wasnt thre before and sorta "magically appeared", then yes, I would say it is a bacteria bloom. Changing water while in the midle of a bacteria bloom may slow the cycle, even tho bacteria lives mostly in the filter-substrate-deco, not the water colum. A bacteria bloom occurs when bacteria multiply at such a rapid pace they do not have time to attach themselves to a surface, therefore they are free in the water colum giving it a cloudy look. WIll removing these bacteria in the water column slow your cyle? Sure, however since you are fishy cycling, you have no choice but to do this for the sake of your fish. Changing water during a bacterial bloom will not notably slow the cycle, so its really no big deal.


what are the normal water readings on nitrites and nitrates and which are good nitrits or nitrates?


Normal readings on NitrITE should be 0, normal on nitrATE should be belox 20 (altho some ppl will say 40). Since you are just starting to cycle , you may very well have a nitrite and nitrate of zero, unless you have some nitrates in your tap. Nitrites are a by product of ammonia, and if you do not have the bacteria present to eat the ammonia, then you will have no nitrite. Nitrate is a byproduct of nitrite, if you do not have the bacteria there to eat the nitrite, then no nitrate will be present.

Blue

[jm1212]

you also stocked your tank to soon, and with fish that will start to have aggression problems. you need to take back the silver and gold gouramis and both of the dwarf gouamis. they will all start to become territorial, and the gold and silver gouramis are going to kill the dwarf gouramis, and then each other. once your tank is fully cycled, then you can add back ONE dwarf gourami. no more, or they will fight with one another.

the filter you had was much, much, better at filtering the water than the whisper they sold you. whisper filters do an average job at cleaning the water, but a penguin (biowheel) filter does a much better job. its not that the filter was low quality, but it just needed to cycle. all filters need to cycle. you shoudl probably take the whisper back and put the penguin filter back on. ammoina is going to happen no matter what you do. it is the waste produced by the fish, either liquid or solid. ammoina chips rob the biological filter of the ammoina it needs to develop, and when they run out of space for ammoina, there is a sudden spike. you need to do 50% water changes every day until your ammoina is at 0.25. buying a test kit can help. a liquid one, not the test strips.

stop adding chemicals to "balance the pH." it is very stressful for the fish becaus ethe pH tends to fluctuate. there are penty of fish that will do fine in your soft water.

nitrates are better than nitrites, but not necessarilty "good". they show that a tank is fully cycled, and are not very harmful for the fish, but you should never let the levels get above 20. nitrite is worse than ammoina.

[Radar]

NitrItes are bad and should always read 0 And the same for Ammonia 0.
NitrAtes are good and are what you are trying to get when you cycle.
I usually keep mine at about 10 or 20.
You don't want a NitrAte reading real high either.

[wataugachicken]

the advice that you have been given so far is very good - including the advice about the fish aggression problems. another solution for you may be to take the fish back to the store (this way you don't have to worry about water changes and fish dying). read up on the fishless method of cycling, and while your tank is cycling that way, you have time to do more research on the types of fish you want, what will be compatible with each other, and what will fit into your 29g tank.

[mashenka]

All -

I changed 30% of water yesterday, 50% today and ammonia is still close to 8.

Fish are not aggressive at each other and have not been showing any signs of trying to do so. They hang out with each other in pairs by color and do not go at each other at all. They have been together for about a month,so unless something weird is going to happen, I hope they do not decide to go at each other one day...I have enough problems with ammonia.........:(

[spirals]

They may not be aggressive now but as they grow older they are going to become larger (probably between 4" and 8" depending) and more territorial. This will lead to cramped conditions and added aggression.

[wataugachicken]

right now because of the high ammonia they are too stressed to be mean to each other. when that problem gets fixed, they will probably feel better and start taking shots at each other.