Converting FW to SW...Oh Lordy!

[Sting]

There is so much info all over the place I do not have any clue whatsoever where to start on converting my 37 Gallon Eclipse freshwater tank to a saltwater tank. I am an expert on freshwater plants and fish, but I am so new to saltwater I don't know much beyond the few sites I've visited, the couple articles I've printed out, and the one Aquarium USA magazine I have from last year (2002)! I've always had such an interest in SW tanks, but I have been limited to space and the largest tank I can hold in my house is the 37 gallon. I also have a 10 Gallon in my room, but that is too small to convert ;). I realize I won't be able to have an enormous setup, but I think the 37 is big enough for a small variety, and not too small at the same time.

My current situation would be that we got new carpet in my house and I had to move my tanks in the garage. I had to empty them out halfway and I was just planning on taking everything out in my 37 G and starting over anyway, new fish new plants, everything. Then I was going to buy another 29 G and get cichlids, but then I just had a revolutionary idea: Move the fish to the 29, and convert the 37 to a saltwater tank!

Now that you know my situation, I just need a beginning place. I know this is a long, precise, costly operation, but are there any sites that give perfect information on starting a saltwater tank? How do I convert the tank to saltwater? I know I have to remove eveything, but does that include the bacteria in the biowheel? Are the cycling bacteria in saltwater tanks different from the bacteria in freshwater tanks? Is this whole thing a bad idea lol!? There is so much to absorb, and I really would like at least a small point in the right direction. We can sit here and talk all day if you want, but if anything I would at least appreciate a website or something?

I'm not much luck on replies at these board so I'm crossing my finger! Thank you so much, I really appreciate the help. Wish me luck as I begin this awesome journey!!!

[OrionGirl]

There are quite a few threads here, so you might want to run a search to ruond them up, but here are the basics.

First, the biggest decision will be to either go for a reef, or for fish only. A reef will include a wide variety of organisms, mostly corals and inverts, with a few fish. A fish only can include some inverts, with emphasis on a few more fish, or on a predator. Lots of choices, but in a 37, I would go with either a reef, or with a single, smaller predator. You won't be able to have lots of fish in any setup, which is why I would focus on either the inverts, or on a predator.

Live rock and a deep sand bed (at least 4 inches, up to about 6) is the best biological filtration you can find. This means the bio-wheel won't help--not even as a seed, since the nitrifying bacteria are different from FW to SW. Additional filters are usually run empty, to provide a) increased water flow and b) capacity for running chemical filtration if needed. For a 37, about 50-60 pounds should be all you'll need. At some point in time, a protien skimmer can be added--they really help maintain water quality, but are not essential. If you're going witha reef, you''lll probably need to upgrade your lights--something around 4+ watts/gallon will give you a wider variety of stocking choices.

Setup the tank, and cycle fishlessly (search for this as well--lots of references and details) before adding any live rock. Usually, put down about some tufa or lace rock along the back wall, and then fill with sand (about 5 inches). The rock will be a platform for stacking your live rock, so it doesn't fall if you purchase something that tunnels. For the first time, you can mix the salt water directly in the tank, but you'll need a bucket suitable for holding about 10 gallons of water (though you won't use all the capacity doing 20% changes, I've found it's easier to work with larger buckets--you don't worry about slopping!). Cycling is a great time to decide if you want the reef organisms or the fish. Many fish will get way too big for your tank, so focus on pygmy angels, gobies, basslets, some wrasses, and shrimps, crabs and corals. Avoid tangs and anemones--your tank is too small and too new for these guys.

If you don't go with a reef, look at something along the lines of a dwarf scorpion fish, or dwarf lion. You could add one or two slightly larger, compatible fish, and have a nice setup.

Some links here to help out:

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11505

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10265

[Sting]

Oh OrionGirl is my hero! Thanks so much for the thoughtful reply :) I really appreciate it!

Yes, I am thinking about a reef tank, not a fish only tank. Whether that means I will actually kep live corals, that is thinking way too ahead for me at the moment. If I can successfully get the saltwater tank running for a while, I will be happy, and then posibly consider some button polyps or some other stuff. Live rock is a definite.

Yes, I do realize I am going to be focusing in on some smaller fish, but I am completely cool with that. I have previously looked at some of the dwarf angels such as the Flame or Cherub, and other smaller species like gobies and I read Damsels are recommended. The only thing I regret is not being able to host a Yellow Tang, I have always loved them! Inverts also sound cool to me, but I don't have any definite plans on them for now.

Thanks for the links and the help so far!

Questions:
Is a protein skimmer necessary for such a small tank? I know they are so expensive and that might send my mom into a panic ;).

Also, I heard biowheels aren't good for saltwater tanks in the first place. Will the filtration system that came with the Eclipse system be sufficient (2 20 Watt Fluorescent light bulbs, Biowheel and carbon filter), or should I get a new hood, with new filters and powerheads? My current system is pretty powerful, but is it enough?

Thanks

[OrionGirl]

Always nice to be a hero...I won't let it go to my head. ;)

In a small tank, damsels are not a good choice. There are a few exceptions--a single fish, either a blue or yellow tial, should be okay. While small, damsels are the cichlids of the SW tank. They can be complete terrors--we had a 3 stripe that harrassed everything in with him, including a 10 inch lion. If you get one, make it the last to go into the tank. Angels are great, wonderful fish, but they can be sensitive, so make sure you get good stock. Pick the fish, put down a deposit, and make sure he's hardy in the LFS tank for at least 10 days, and that you see it eat before taking it home. They tend to be hard to feed, so I would avoid the cherub (very bad reputation, poor survival rates). Flames can be hardy, but I'd still make sure it's doing good inthe store first.

If you want to setup with live rock and sand, then there are a host of invertebrates that you will want--crabs, hermit crabs, snails, shrimp and brittle stars are the clean up crews that make these systems work, and help you control algae. They are not hard, and short of avoiding fish that will snack on them, require very little care.

To start out, no, a skimmer isn't required. Long term, it's not really required, but it is very helpful. There are several smaller setups, that are relatively inexpensive that will work for your tank. Buying online (bigalsonline.com is great) will reduce the cost even more.

The filtration in there will be pretty much un-needed--the live rock and sand play host for the bacterial filtration, taking care of ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. The inverts I listed above, in addition to a variety of worms and copopods that will come in with your live rock, are your mechanical filtration--they clean up the left over food, in addition to solid wastes. So, remove the carbon pad, and just let the water run through there to keep the current up. An additional powerhead or two will help--you can strategically place them to prevent low flow areas, where algaes can be a problem.

For lights--gaurantee, that job won't cut it for most photo- synthetic life. It will probably maintain the purple coralline algae, and there are lots of low light corals that will be fine. Things like sand polyps, button polyps, many of the mushrooms, sponges, and gorgonians will be fine, but you should avoid flowerpots, starburst polyps, brains, clams, ect--if it is green, it needs more light than the standard eclipse hoods provide. There are conversion kits--I think hellolights.com carries one or two, but they can be costly (much more so than a decent skimmer). I'd aim to get the tank up and going, with decent live rock, a few fish. Let in run for 6 months or so--however long it takes to get it stable and low maintenance (ie, regular changes keep it running smoothly), and then decide if you want to save up for better lights.

[Sting]

All right- this is beginning to sound awesome!

What I'm understanding is that I don't need the carbon filter pad-Not even the biowheel??

So my start-up will be some lace-rock, sand-bed 4-6 inches (20% live sand?) and then the salt water? I didn't understand if I was supposed to actually cycle with the live rock or not? I had read about adding the clean up crew to boost the cycling- do you recommend that?

So my steps are:
Buy a slatwater test kit! haha!
Completely clean out my system (do I do this with salt water??)
Remove Biowheel and Carbon Filter
Place Lace Rock in tank
Lay live sand bed down (4-6 inches) around lace rock
Add salt water (I prefer premixed) to salinity of 1.022, pH8.2
Let tank clear up
Add live Rock (How much- did you say 40-60 lbs???)
Sit back and let the tank cycle? Or do I add some inverts first?

About the inverts, you suggest I should look at Brittle Stars, Shrimp, Snails and Crabs. I have really liked what I've seen with the Skunk Shrimp (?) will they work in this setup? how many of these inverts do you suggest?

Alrighty, that's about it for now! Thanks OrionGirl, you rock my world haha :D

[OrionGirl]

Actually, I would use regular play sand for the base with about 20 lbs of live sand on top, and then add the live rock after you're cycled. Good live rock will include lots of stuff--macro algaes, sponges, small corals, and a variety of hitch hikers. Having the rock in there during the cycle will kill lot of this stuff off. So, if you add it after the initial ammonia spike, with the nitrites receding, you won't lose all the good stuff, and the bacteria on the rock will help finish up the cycle process. The usual guide for rock is 1-2 lbs per gallon of tank. You can use 2-3 cocktail shrimp (from the grocery deli, nothing live) to initiate the cycle. I wouldn't add anything until the ammonia and nitrites test 0, then do a water change to bring the nitrates down, and start stocking.

For inverts--skunks will be fine, and are social, so a group of 3-4 will be great. For snails--I'd go with 10-15 nassarius/nerites, 4-6 turbos. For hermits--15-20 scarlets. A mithrax (emerald) crab will be helpful with algae as well. One brittle star for the sand and tight spot clean up should be fine.

Usually, a good rinse with just water is enough. If there are any water stains or algaes, you can scrub them off. If you're worried about it, oxyclean is great for cleaning aquariums--it rinses clean very easily, unlike soaps that can leave a residue. And nope, you don't need the carbon filter pad or the biowheel. The live rock will do their job nicely, and the carbon pad would just trap solid wastes where the cleaners couldn't get to them--potentially causing increased nitrates.

HTH

[BrianH]

If you plan on buying cured live rock from your LFS, wait until the cycle is over to add it. If you plan on buying uncured live rock(mo or online), you can add it at the beginning to kick off your cycle.

Brian

[Sting]

Cool, everything seems to have fallen into place. I am going to transfer the freshwater fish I have in my 37 G to my new 29 G and then I am going to clean it out and buy some sand and Instant Ocean!

I am going to make a list so I can plan out what the next few days are going to be like, am I leaving anything out?

4-6 inch sand base of Aragonite-Based Playsand from HomeDepot
40 Gallons of RO water
1 Tub of Saltwater mix (Which brand is best? Instand Ocean?)
Hydrometer
Marine Test Kits
A Powerhead that pumps around x10
3 Jumbo Cocktail Shrimp
Some Base Rock
10 G bucket to mix water in

Then, I follow the steps I have already layed out before and I'll be good?


EDIT: Do I add the live sand before the ammonia spike or after, since I assume it is like the Live Rock, with bacteria and stuff like that that might die? thanks

[OrionGirl]

Good list. Instant Ocean is usually least expensive, and very popular. It's what I as well as many others here use.

Depending on where you are getting the live sand, it may not matter. If you're ordering some of the net, it should be trul live, with bacteria and critters, so adding it before the ammonia spike will actually minimize the spike, and you should not lose much. The stuff that is sold pre-bagged at the pet box stores is a bit less reliable. Usually that stuff has sat for so long, dry or almost, that I doubt there is much in the way of life present, and IMO, it's not worth your money. There are several places that sell live sand (garfs.org, liverocks.com, gulfview.com) and this stuff really will help out.

[Sting]

Good news! I just returned from the LFS and I bought just under 30 lbs. of base rock and the 50 G bag of Instant Ocean, a Hydrometer and some Fluorite for my 29 G. I went to buy the 29 G at Petsmart because I thought it would be cheaper, but it was the same price. Unfortunately they didn't have the right colors to match my 37 G since I am switching the hoods, so I am going to the LFS tomorrow to get the Black 29 G Combo there for 70$ and then I am going to begin switching fish and hoods, and laying down the Southdown Playsand I will be buying at Home Depot tomorrow. It was an act of God that the 29 and 37 G have the same length and width, so my Eclipse hood will fit right onto the 29 G since the Marine tank won't need a filtration system! Live Rock was 4.99 a pound, so I think I'm going to ahve to stock it slowly and I'm planning to buy online. Everything is off to a great start- thanks!

[OrionGirl]

When the time comes to buy live rock--run a search on General Marine for 'live rock online'--there's a thread that lists several places that have good stuff for a decent price--but keep in mind, you'll end up paying quite a bit for shipping, so sometimes it's cheaper to buy locally. Plus, then you can pick and choose the sizes and shapes that you want.


Welcome to the saltie side--you'll be converting the 29 before you know it. ;)

[BrianH]

IMHO if your buying real live sand (usually online) I would wait until your cycle is over to add it. I wouldn't spend the cash on live sand just to risk killing all the critters you get with it.

Brian

[Sting]

OK, well I've been to the fish store everyday for the last couple of days, and I've got a lot of my supplies, and am about ready to add the water to the tank, and begin mixing in the Instant Ocean I bought. But I am encountering some problems and I was wondering if I could get some more advice and help.

First, I bought 2 50 lb. bags of Paysand because I thought I could get that Southdown stuff, but unfortunately it wasn't-and according to my LFS, it's silica based, which (according to them) will produce tons of phosphates that will elad to diatom algea outbreaks, which will but my fish's gilss ect ect ect. The sand they sell there is 20$ for 20 lbs. It was so much, adding it onto all my other costs, I could only buy one back of crushed coral. The guy said if I bought the larger grain size (around 2-4mm) it could sit on top of a thing layer of the playsand, and keep it from getting into the water column, so I did- but he also recommended a phosphate sponge just in case (I ahven't bought the phosphate songe yet). Are his suggestions accurate-help!?

Second, apparently the base rock I had bought the day before (Paradise Coral Rock??) is also phosphate prone- I guess- even though the stupid lady sold it to me anyway! I'm not too worried about this part though, because I only bought 3 pieces, and my live rock will outnumber it anyway, so I'm not as concerned, I'm just going to rinse it down very well. (Am I doing good so far concerning this base rock?)

Now, he said a DSB is not necessary- he said something about not enough of this kind of bacteria to feed off of that bacteria so it didn't matter?? I didn't listen much when he got off on that little tangent, so I can't remember, but I think for now I am just going to wait for you guy's suggestions, because I don't know if I should use this silica or not. I am going to try PetSmart to see if they sell sandy substrates cheaper- hopefully if they carry them, it will be less expensive.

Fourth, he started to try and convince me that Instant Ocean is of the devil (basically ;)) He told me it was the worst of all the salts and I should purchase the more **expensive** salts- which I completely disreguarded. He kept trying to tell me I should be the Reef Crystals deal because the salt come from real bodies of water, but I am perfectly fine with Instant Ocean- even though he says I am only buying a name brand- not a "quality salt".

My LFS is great, the guy who I get to consistantly help me is very reliable, and definitely knows his stuff. So you don't have to rant about ignorant LFS workers, but you can tell me what advice is correct, and what is not, because I need a lot of help- all the info I got kind of confused me, because some of it contradicted with what you guys tell me. One guy at PetCo (not my LFS) even told me about how I must definitely have mechanical filtration or I will undoubtedly fail- sine him and his so many years of experience has taught him that.

The last thing, what powerhead do I buy? I was looking at the 30$ MaxiJet or Penguin, I don't remember what it pumped, but it was about 6x my tank size, but the lady there told me I only needed a mini, and that the whole 10x thing was untrue. GAH!

This is all very confusing, I am starting to think LFS workers just don't like us Internet Aquarists, because we cheat them out of business and money with our sneaky little tricks!

Thanks for helping me out you guys, going to the LFS has gotten me so excited- I looked at all the clean up crew members, and am getting excited just to purchase them! I think I'm going to go with Peppermint Shrimp, not only were they the cheapest, but they were pretty cool as well. Yup, so I am getting excited, I just have some questions!

Thanks ya'll- peace.

[kreblak]

People at the LFS aren't necessarily trying to cheat you, but it is their job to sell things. Oriongirl's advice is worth its weight in gold, trust me.

I saw somewhere on your posts that the LFS told you that you don't need a DSB. This is true, you don't NEED a DSB, but it sure as heck is useful for housing all of those millions of nitrifying bacteria that you so desperately need for your tank's biofilter. Plus, deep down in the sand bed, where the water doesn't flow or oxygenate, you get an anerobic bacteria that breaks down nitrate. This is an incredibly good thing, as it helps to maintain pristine water quality. I know people with a DSB and live rock who do not perform water changes. They don't have to!

The people here have no interest in how much you spend, we just want to make sure that you do it right the first time, so you don't have to undergo the frustration and pain of losing your fish.

[Sting]

Thanks Kreblak, that's one of the reasons I love coming here for advice instead. Do you have any info of the silica sand- because that is what I am most concerned about?? Thanks!

[kreblak]

I have read alternating posts on silica sand. Some say it leads to algae blooms, some say that it doesn't. I have a mix of silica sand and crushed coral in my tank. I have my fair share of algae, as does everyone, but four turbo snails and a cleaner shrimp have made short work of it all! I really haven't noticed an increase in algae due to the sand.

Phosphates are the other side of the algae equation. Wihout them, you'll get little growth, even with high nitrate levels. RO water helps immensely. Call the city and find out how your tap water's phosphate levels are. 5 ppm is pretty much the standard as far as I know.

Basically, algae is the least of my worries. It is ugly, but easily cleanable, especially with a few industrious snails! ;)

[Sting]

Kreblak, that makes me feel- SO -much better. To know that you have silica sand in your tank is comforting :) I think I am going to keep it, and just lay the crushed coral on top! It really makes me feel more secure having it in my tank, knowing you do too. And yes, like you I am planning on a big big clean up crew (15 Shrimp, 10 Hermits, 5 Turbos and 3 Emeralds) so I think I will be good! Thank you very much!

EDIT: And yea, I use RO water- so that's also a plus!!!

[OrionGirl]

Chiming in a little late (Hey, a girl's gotta' work some days!), but you've basically found out that there are a lot of myths out there, and that even the BEST LFS will be guilty of spreading one or two. Another truth--what is bullet proof in one tank, won't work for other people. This is an art as much as it is a science!

Silica based sand will not be a problem. Argonite based sands are great, because they are basically really finely crushed coral, which means it can help buffer your tank and stablilize the pH. Not needed--the slat mix helps buffer, as will any coral ornaments you choose to add (sea shells, as well as the coral skeletons).

I am not sure where the rumor of silica sand adding phosphates comes from...Possibly through the use of dirty or locally collected sand? Anyway, standard play sand has no phosphates. Tap water is the primary source of phosphates, though certain chemicals, usually used in FW can also add them--things like pH Up/Down.

I've even heard that using silica will cause diatoms, because (GASP!) of the silica. Well, the glass is silica as well, and if it's dissolving, diatoms will be the least concern.

Needless to say, I have 3 SW tanks and 3 FW planted tanks with play sand. No problems that I can't be blamed for, not the sand.

There is a bunch of speculation about the type of salt mix to use. The really corny thing, IMB, is that even if a salt mix IS missing an important element, it's likely cheaper to buy that and dose the tank than to upgrade to a pricier salt. If you're interested, Google Salt Mix Comparisons. There are several out there, and (ahem) depending on who sponsored them, you will get very different results. The only reliable statement that I have found believable is that Instant Ocean is not always exactly the same--some bags will have a bit more buffer, others a bit less. You monitor the tank and check salinity, it's easy to compensate for this without spending $$$$$$$$.

The whole bacteria issue--while it sounds like it's phrased poorly, there is some minor truth to this. The nitrates are broken down deep within the sand bed, where there is little water current...which means the nitrates are slow to get to the areas where the bacteria thrive, and a DSB alone will take a while to build up enough bacteria to consume all the nitrates in a system. But, it still works, and still helps improve your water quality, in addition to providing a great place for detrivores to thrive.

In SW, lots of current is a good thing. Not only for controlling algaes (think of a rolling stone and moss--sand behaves the same way), but also for having happy animals. There are exceptions, like seahorses and pipe fish, but most reef fish are used to the entire OCEAN rushing around. What's a few powerheads compared to that? You can control the output on most powerheads, and can get a variety of size to target different areas of the tank. Buy reliable ones--maxi-jet and aqua clears are my favorites.

[Sting]

Whew! You guys are so great! OrionGirl, I trust you over even my LFS workers LOL- you seem to have a lot of experience, and sound very professional and very knowledgable! KNowing that you guys have the silica in your tanks is a big relief, and for now- I have to tell you the freshwater fish I transferred to the 29 are doing great- and for some reason, the tank looks even bigger than my 37 :p As for the Salty one, I layed down a half inch layer of the play sand down, added the base rock, and then put about an inch layer around the rocks to support them. Then, I swear it was like Jesus feeding the 5000 people, the 2- lbs. of crushed coral aragonite-based substrate I bought filled in over 4 inches on top of the sand and around the rocks :eek: It looks great, and I added some hills and strategically placed the rocks so it looks like it has more depth (since its such a narrow tank) and I also leaned two pieces of base rock together to form a cave the goes down lower than the surrounding sand- kind of hard to explain. I've added around 5 G of RO water that I had laying aorund the house, and I'll be filling the rest of it up either later tonight, or Saturday. The water is looking milky, but I can still see through- going along just as expected :)

I think I'm going to make this "my tank post" kind of like JasonA and I'll take some pics after I fill it up and mix the salt- and give my readings, and maybe weekly updates- if people want to see how I'm coming along!

[OrionGirl]

Ahh, so that "How to BS Successfully" class is showing dividends? ;)

Keeping us posted is fantastic, since then we can refer other newbies to your experience, and you'll be able to keep track of your progress.

The milky look will go away fairly quickly, more so when the tank is full and there's current. Think of a fast mountain stream, versus the muddy ol' Mississippi--fast current kick particulates out!

[kreblak]

Any time you add crushed coral, you will get a wierd milky tint to the water. There is some sort of "dust" that seems to come off the crushed coral. It setles quickly. You will also notice this if you mess with the substrates at any future point. The more current you have, the quicker the haze settles.

What fish are you thinking of for your SW?

[Sting]

Haha, yea well last night I used all of my old Gallon jugs and my empty 5 G jugs (from the water I get for my water cooler) to fill up the rest of my tank from the Glacier water dispenser at Publix which is RO water, and it was less than 10$! That was officially the best deal I have ever gotten in the fish business so far! 25 cents a gallon-Haha!

I mixed up the salt then, and it was incredibly easy compared to what I had expected. I thought getting the salinity levels to a perfect 1.022 would have been so hard, but it was astonishingly simple.

Um, all the water cleared in less than 30 minutes and my salinity level is at 1.022 on the dot. I am thinking about adding another 1/2 cup though, to boost it up to a 1.023- which my LFS holds, so I think my fish will acclimate better.

I am going to buy the Maxi-Jet tomorrow, and then I'm going to drop in the shrimp and take some water tests, and pictures.

For stocking, I am not sure exactly, but here is my list to choose from:
Fish
Small Clown of some sort (I like the False or True Percs best)
Yellowtail Damsel
Pajama Cardinalfish
Flame Angel
Firefish

I'm not sure about my fish selection yet. I am aiming for some of the cheaper fish, because if they don't do well, I don't want to have lost 50$ (!) down the drain. I am not opposed to more expensive fish, but at least at first- I'd like to go with some of the cheaper ones to ensure my tank is stable. Obviously I can't have all of those fish in one tank together, but I am going to pick off of that list- unless you can recommend me others.

Inverts
15 Peppermint Shrimp
10 Hermit Crabs
5 Turbo Snails
3 Emerald Crabs
Brittle Star (possibly)
Feather Duster (possibly)

For Coral, I am going to make sure my tank is stable for at least 6 months until I add a few. Before that, I have to buy new lighting and then I'll think about Polyps and maybe Mushrooms. An LFS worker recommended I buy the Power Compact lighting system for 350$ with 200 Watts, so if I go that route, I will be able to grow nearly anything- but for now...they are not even in the picture. I am planning on that lighting system as a Christmas present from mi madre ;)

Any fish suggestions are welcome, for now I'm doing awesome. Peace-

[Sting]

Wow! Holy Crap- I was also just amde aware of Tampa Bay Saltwater, an awesome salt water compay that is dedicated to live rock and marine tanks. They had 5 acres on the Gulf where they harvest their own live rock, teaming with TONS of life- I read all FOUR pages of the customer testimonials, and they were astounded- To know I lvie within 20 minutes of this place gets me so excited I could dance! Their prices are amazing, and their customer service seems to be outstanding! The stuff I read from these people seemed almost too good to be true. I am very excited to do all of my live rock purchases there- and I can't wait! I really hope my tank cycles fast- My LFS is on the same road as the TBS store, I think I'm just going to stop in for a couple minutes and talk with the people there. (!!!!) I am estatic!!

[OrionGirl]

Okay, you suck. 20 minutes from TBS? You know what's 20 minutes from my house? That's right, a big ol' prairie, complete with antelope and buffalo.

I am so unfairly cheated by not living more coastally located. :D

mutters and growls off to go see how the 2 pieces of rock purchased last weekend for a whopping $100 are fairing...

[BrianH]

Sting,

I would also check into Gulf-View (http://www.gulf-view.com) . They are probably also in your area, also sell caribbean aquacultured rock, and have a lot of satisfied customers on this board.

Brian

[Sting]

Alright, I bought a MaxiJet 900 a couple days ago, it's been up and running and works great! I have it aimed toward the glass upwards- so it will make good gas exchange while the shrimp rot (yuck!) and so it would make good current with as little dead spots as possible. It turns around 6.4 times my tank size every hour, which is ok but not the best.

The Shrimp were dropped in, and here were my readings for my first 2 days. I have yet to take readings for today.

06/07/03 = Day One
pH: 8.1
NH3 (Ammonia): 1.5 mg/l
NO2 (Nitrites): 0.4 mg/l
Salinity: Constant 1.023

06/08/03 = Day Two
pH: 8.1
NH3: ~2.0 mg/l
NO2: 0.4 mg/l
Salinity: Constant 1.023

Things are looking good, but I think when my test kits run out and I am going to buy a different kind. I am using my TetraTest kit that I used for freshwater, that luckily came with Saltwater kits too, but I don't like it one bit. Matching up colors was fine for Freshwater, but I prefer to be exact in this salty business. Matching up colors is too sketchy. As a sidenote, I've been keeping my salinity at a constant 1.023. It had been raising slightly, so I topped off about 1/5 of a gallon today, just a little to bring it back to the top.

Questions:
Right now my lighting is terrible, and I know that. It's something like 1 watt per gallon at most because I switched my Eclipse hood with my Fresh 29G and just used the crappy lighting that came with the 29G. I am planning on buying a PC system, but I was hoping I could hold off on that till my BDay around November, or Xmas since they are costly (350$) and I still haven't even started buying my LR (!). I know LR needs more lighting than I have, and I don't want to kill stuff off right after I buy it. Should I start searching aorund on Ebay- or just make the purchase?

Things really are going well and I couldn't be happier. I stick my nose to the water though, and I can start to smell a little odor from the decomposing shrimp. I hope it doesn't stink up my house, my mom would hate that!

PS: I'm in contact with GulfView and I am going to try and stop by their facilities this week and decide whether I'd like to buy from GV or TBS. I went to TBS Sat. and was a little disappointed- from all the esteem I thought it'd be nicer- but it had a lot of cool creatures. Right now, I think I'm going to end up buying a lot of base Coralline Algea rock from TBS for 1.50/lb (it look GREAT) but then I may move over and buy some of the premium decor rock to accent the base stuff and give the tank a lot of extra little creatures.

In case you haven't noticed, I worry about cost a lot. Just to let you know, if you haven't figured it out, I'm a 15 guy who loves to work on cool projects, and I take Fish as one of my prized hobbies- I abswolutely love it! but keeping up with 3 tanks is a lot of money already, and my parents pay for everything. I feel bad asking them for all this stuff, and coming out of the fish store with a 200$ check...everytime. It's not that we don't have the money, that's why I am fortunate to be able to do this at my age, but I just feel bad asking my parents for large amounts of money like that constantly, even though they don't mind at all.

But even though I'm young- I still do my research, so don't think I'm one of those ignorant kids. I really do know my stuff, and if I don't I'm the first to admit it, and I always do my research. Thanks to you guys though, I am successfuly, and I really appreciate your support. I try and be mature cause I figure you grown adults probably don't like younger teens like me trying to give advice, so I am trying!

A Genuine thank you so much :)

[Sting]

Just as an update, I went out of the country last week, and let my mom and brother take care of topoff and readings for the tank. The ammonia readings are going down and the Nitries are going up, but for the moment I've finished the test kits up, and I am immediately switching to Salifert when I have time to visit to LFS. I cannot stand the Tetra kit I have, as well as Tetra-period, after what they did on the Early Show. The shrimp are almost gone- very yellow and slimey, and pieces come off occassionally- although while I was gone I asked my mom to drop in an extra one because I wasn't sure if they were already gone, and I wanted to maintain the ammonia to keep the bacteria thriving. So, I have four shrimp now, and 3 are nearly gone (I give 'em one more week) and the fourth is starting to break up (but I can always take that out when the cycle is over).

For now, I am planning on buying half my live rock possibly this Saturday, or after I get back in town (I'm leaving next week) then adding my Clean up crew when I get back in town, because by then the cycle will be complete! I cannot believe my patience is holding out, I am amazed!

Now for the question- I have two lighting options. I have researched a lot of different options, but these are my two final decisions. There is either a 2 96W (192 Total) 30" PC system I could buy for 350$ or a 2 65W (130 Total) 30" PC system I could buy for 220$. I talked to my reliable LFS worker who has been my personal helper for over a year now, and he said that 192W is almost unnecessary for the kind of system I want to have (Softies, mushrooms, leathers) and 130W will be plenty. SO do I save lots of money and just go with the 130W PC system?

Here's a link to the JBJ Formosa 30" system I am looking at. The 192W system isn't online- but at the LFS. Although spending less money is better, if the 192W system is necessary, I would be willing to pay for it. Thanks!

http://www.petmeister.com/item1003.htm

[BrianH]

What about this one JB 2 x 96 fixture (http://www.petmeister.com/item822.htm) , it is only $20.00 more.

Brian

[Sting]

Because it's 36" and my tank is 30" ;)

[BrianH]

Sorry, I missed that. I'm curious as to the type of 30" 2 x 96 watt fixture your lfs has since the 96 watt bulbs are about 34". Can you explain in more detail?

Brian

[OrionGirl]

Are they 96 or 65? The more light you have, the less limited you will be in what corals you can keep. Bigger might not be better, but brighter is!
Think those are the ones that include the fans? Nice setups, if so.

[Sting]

Yea, I know it's ironic, but it actually is a 30" 96W setup. I think it may be a result that most 30" hoods have 24" bulbs. Sorry I can't give more info- it's the only one I've seen between the net and my LFS and I only caught a glimpse, and a short description over the phone.

I know more lights will give me more of a variety, but I mainly just want softies, zoos, xenia, leathers, and mushrooms- no stonies or sponges at all- so is all that extra light needed?

I just found an amazing system at hellolights.com for 145$ that has 2 65W fixtures, both with 2 bulbs each for a total of 4 bulbs. Both fixtures are 50/50 daylight 10,000K and Actinic for 2 bulbs each. There are fans included and everything. Of the deals I've found I like this one the most-so far.

[OrionGirl]

Just ordered a bunch of stuff from Hellolights--setting up a new planted tank, and re-doing my existing 40 planted tank. Good stuff, good prices.

If you're not going to want a clam or stonies, you'll be fine in the 3-5 watts/gallon range. Some stuff will want to be closer to the surface, but that's pretty easy to work around.

[Anaxus]

I have the same tank as you and have been thinkng of converting it to SW. Could you link the lighting kits you found on that site? The only two I could find that were close to what you describe are http://hellolights.com/24retrokits.html and http://hellolights.com/24vhoretkit.html but neither comes with a fan.

edit: NM I found it, it was hiding on the front page =)
It only seems to have 2 bulbs. Are you talking about getting 2 kits? Or am I missunderstanding the way the kit works?

[Ray Pollett]

I have one set of these. Apear to be well designed.

http://hellolights.com/30aqualights.html Only $145.00 on sale

Ray

[Ray Pollett]

Sting I think you may have miss read the system you described from HelloLights.

Ray

[Ray Pollett]

Do not let the looks of Tampa Bay Saltwater fool you. They are the oldest of the Aquacultured rock suppliers and are great to do business with.

Ray

[Sting]

Haha, yea I have heard too many great things about TBS recently, to let my first impression get in the way of their true quality.

And also, did I really misread? It had said 50/50 Combo, and when I clicked the picture, it showed each of the 2 fixtures having 2 bulbs (or at least it looked like that). The reason I say 2 bulbs is because I saw the 2 different colors, blue and white. I saw 2 separate blue strips, and 2 white strips- leading me to believe there was 4 bulbs. Either way, I think this system appears to be perfect for my setup, am I wrong?

[Anaxus]

Not sure how it works but your right it looks like 4 lights. I was looking at that system also

[BrianH]

Compact florescent bulbs are a U shape. It is most likely two of these U shaped bulbs you are seeing.

Brian

[Sting]

Ooooh ok. So half of the U is Daylight 10,000K and the other half is Actinic? yea Anaxus, I think that's the system I am going to purchase as well. My mom said we'll shoot for buying the lighting July 15th, since we're buying 30 lbs. of Live rock and the Clean Up Crew the 12th at TBS.

Another question: I ahd mentioned 15 peppermint shrimp on RC and got some feedback saying this was quite a lot. For some reaosn I remember being recommended 15- but is that too many? What about 6-9 since they are sold by 3's as my LFS?

So instead, it would be:
15 Hermits
10 Peppermint Shrimps
5 Turbo Snails
3 Emerald Crabs
1 Brittle Sea Star

Is that about right or is that still too many shrimp?

[Anaxus]

I was looking on liveaquaria and etropicals and they sell cleanup crew kits. For like 100$ you get X amount. Not sure if its a good deal or not since I havent really looked around. They have kits seperated by how many gallons your tank is.

[Ray Pollett]

There are two different types of 96W bulbs. The PC 96W is about 34 inches long. You also have the PowerQuad 96W bulb. It is about 17 inches long. ( guess, do not have one to messure).

Ray

[Sting]

Anaxus, I live next to TBS (Tampa Bay Saltwater) and they sell basically everything for a dollar since they have such an abundance. Snails, and Hermits are all a dollar each, the shrimps are a little more expensive along with the sea stars, but basically, I've got that one covered ;)

[Anaxus]

That must be nice sting. I was looking at LR a few days ago and it was about 5$/lb. I will probably end up having to order it online.