filtration and plants

[Shaun]

Hi
I am new to plants but used to keep fish a long time ago. My question is: - I am planning to use reverse under gravel filtration with an external power filter but in the past I had little success (possibly due to the under gravel filter we used back then) with plants so used artificial. I am planning to keep mainly discus in a 5'x2'x2' but would like some proper plants this time. Is it possible to grow decent plants with U/G filtration and could someone recommend the type I should be growing (I also live in the UK so choice will be limited). And while I am asking questions do plants carry diseases and what is the best way to minimise risk prior to introduction. I know this is a lot in one go but any help is appreciated.

Thanks Shaun

[Tyler718]

IMHO, UGF are not the best thing for planted tanks. If the dimensions you gave are in feet then I would go with a canister filter. (Ehiem, Filstar, Fluval) It would be easier on the plant's roots in the substrate.

For plants I would either wait for 80gJoe to reply or send him a PM to get the best answer. He has been very succusful at keeping Discus in a planted tank.

Dave

[Shaun]

Hi
Thanks for the advice ,I do intend to use external filtration as well but did not fancy putting all my eggs in one basket . The problem is I am a contractor and may leave the wife in charge for a couple of weeks at a time. If the external filter fails hopefully the UG would give her more of a chance to get help (I have spare power heads and she is capable of changing those ). I was wondering if it is possible to leave gaps in the UG for plants but at present I am only at the planning stage.

[superjohnny]

I'd use a Bio wheel or HOB filter + canister if you want double filtration. I had a UGF once.... once was enough. It was a PITA IMO. Canisters are easy and do a great job. Best of both worlds.

[mogurnda]

The backup sounds like a fine idea, but the UGF may not be the way to go IMHO. You won't need the biofiltration capacity, because your plants and surface germs should be adequate for that, and I am dubious about plant growth over them (here come the flames). What about just a small powerhead for circulation if the main filter goes out?

[hatton3]

I keep both discus and plants and their needs are very similar. You mentioned a backup system, I use a couple of Eheim canisters on my tank - that way I'll be covered if one goes out. I would not do the UGF - If you don't want to buy 2 canisters, you can get a sponge filter and place it in your tank. Discus need very clean water.

You mentioned that you might be gone for weeks at a time - I think that your biggest concern for maintenance by your wife would be the water changes with RO water. It is a lot of work and I don't know if my wife would do it! :)

Everyone has got their opinions about water changes...I think that it is a consistant opinion that a 50% water change once a week is needed for planted tanks if you are dosing ferts. On top of that, I do a 25% water change halfway through the week. That keeps my discus very happy. I dose ferts via Tom Barr method.
Good luck! :)

[TwoTankAmin]

Yes, you can do a planted tank with a RUGF. However, you must use larger gravel than is optimal for plants. You can do swords, some stems, ferns, anubias, even crypts. The more delicate plants will not fare as well in larger gravel.

The RUGF should be used in combination with another filter used for mech and, if needed, chemical filtration.

[plantbrain]

Actually you may use any sized sand grain with a RFUG, just don't use the plates, make your own with CPVC in a grid. It's like a spray bar that covers the bottom of your tank. Some old comaopnies inn the past made these but for a few $ you can make one, maybe 10$/Euro's max.
This(RFUG CPVC grid) is okay if you plan on dosing the water column consistently. See the APD and here for more on this. I would not do this if I were you.

But leaving your wife to do the dirty work while you are away is not too nice:) But if she's into the planted tank thing and is willing to get her hands wet and learn as well, you might be in business.

Discus + neglect = disaster+ money black hole

She's going to need to feed them good food regularly(min once a day), prune the tank(perhaps weekly), dose nutrients as needed(2-3x a week), water changes(weekly) etc.
It's a lot to ask if you plan on doing this right. I'd be careful what you ask for.
Don't overstock the tank, maybe add 12 fish or so, 30 otto cats,a few cory cats, small plecos like Ancistrus sp etc.

I'd ask my other half to take care of a 500 liter Live Reef before trying this.
Canister filter all the way. 2 is a good idea. 1900-2600 lph's worth.
Use the sand + laterite in the UK.
PMDD is available there in the UK also(see www.thekrib.com etc).

Regards,
Tom Barr

[hatton3]

Originally posted by plantbrain

Discus + neglect = disaster+ money black hole

I'd ask my other half to take care of a 500 liter Live Reef before trying this.


Absolutely - you cannot neglect your discus. They are not difficult to keep if you feed them correctly and do water changes of a significant amount and often with Reverse Osmosis water.

I'd have to agree - I've kept both a Discus and plant tank (my current tank) and a live reef as well. I can tell you that the reef tank was easier to maintain.

Don't be scared off from discus or plants - they are wonderful and I love my tank very much. It is so neat to see your discus swim in and out of all of your thick swords and ferns. I enjoy this tank much more than my reef! I guess you just need to know (and discuss with your wife) what she will be doing! It is not rocket science, but just a bit more maintenance than your typical tank. If you want to decrease your maintenance somewhat, just don't add the discus.

Good luck!

[Shaun]

Hi
My other half is willing to spend a lot of time on the tanks as she loves animals and fish and like most females wont have something that is not looking at its best in the house (this makes comming home on a Friday night a bit dodgy for me ). But seriously she is all for this and will probably still care for them even when I am home . She tends to take over so we will probably end up with a tank each . Thanks to you all for your advice and I will let you know my final set up and results once the tank(s) are up and running .

[hatton3]

Oi!
Glad to hear that everything will work out for you. I'm not so lucky, my wife will not touch the tank... but she expects it to look pristene. :)