2 week old fishless cycle...when will nitrites show up ??

[southpaw]

Today makes exactly 2 weeks that I have had my fishless cycle going. I dosed the tank with pure ammonia I got from Ace Hardware to 4ppm... The ammonia has stayed constant at 4ppm with no sign of nitites yet. Will it be any day now or is there even a magic time frame for this? I read anywhere from 1-3 weeks.

I wish I knew someone with an established tank I could get some media from to boost this along but none of my friends or family have tanks and my LFS hasnt been real helpful with anything I have asked them especially when it comes to "fishless" cycling as all they seem to want is to sell some fish...

[Aphotic Phoenix]

Do you have any live aquarium plants in the tank? They often carry some hitchhiking bacteria.

Otherwise you pretty much just have to patient and wait for the bacteria to get up to a large enough colony to reproduce at a noticeable rate.

[southpaw]

No live plants...

Guess I am just getting alittle impatient ....I was hoping to be one of the lucky ones to have a quick cycle :(

[mellowvision]

If you have a friend with a tank, some used gravel or filter media would help it along.

[Star_Rider]

Lucky?? quick cycle??

usually not used in the same sentence. ;)

generally the cycle takes 6-8 weeks. usually after 2-3 weeks you should start seeing nitrites.

which test are you using?

if you could get established media you wouldn't even need to cycle (as long as the media is handled correctly and is from a good source)
what filtration are you using??
are you just adding the ammonia and leaving things alone?

hang in there..it will come in time.

hang in there..

[NeonJulie]

Couple things to try if you haven't already. Bump the temperature up to 85-90 degrees. Throw in a pinch of fish food at least once a week to supply phosphates. Lower the water level to create plenty of oxygen and splash. And, then wait. At 4-5ppm, you're at a good number, if it gets past 6 you might have needed to do a water change, but you aren't overdosing, and you should see results soon. (Actually, mine was real soon, but every body's cycles are different.)

I hope as well you aren't using the dipsticks, the ammonia readings and nitrites are definitely not accurate, when I run them parallel to my API liquid freshwater kit.

[southpaw]

I am using an API liquid test kit...The only real question I would have about that is that the test comparison card goes from 4ppm then the next color is 8ppm...So when the test shows the color for 4ppm does this mean it is 4 or somewhere between 4-7ppm before it would change to the darker 8ppm color?? I read that over 6ppm could stall a cycle out ,but since the API test has a large gap between the 4ppm and 8ppm how are you to know exactly what it is??

Water temp is around 79* ...

And as for filtration it is an Aqua-Tech 30-60 brand filter that came with the 55g kit from Walmart. From what I have read the Aqua-tech filter is basically a Penguin 350 without the bio-wheel but it does have a bio filter material that is between the filter and water output...the filters are the same as used in the Penguin 350 and say in small print "manufactured by Marineland" so hopefully the filter is pretty good for now and should have a good place for bacterial growth within the bio material.

[NeonJulie]

Mine doesn't, going from memory, I think it jumps by 2.0 points each color. Anyway, what you want is a medium shade of green, or just get a Seachem Ammonia Alert, let it turn purple, and come back when it's yellow. (much easier)

[southpaw]

The API color card that came in my master kit goes like this...

0
.25
.50
1.0
2.0
4.0
8.0

[NeonJulie]

Stick to 4 then, maybe a hair shade darker. You probably dont' have to be worried until 8 or 10, 5 is just a nice number. 4 will also do the trick.

[southpaw]

Thats what I am saying...it shows as 4ppm but in reality it could be anywhere between 4-8 unless there are slight variations in color between 4-8. Would it be alittle darker say at 6 (somewhere between the 4-8 color) ?

[magakitty]

yes you have to read between the lines

[NeonJulie]

Yes. However, I'm inclined to believe that at 6 you begin to retard the process by too high a concentration - remember, most tank stocks won't put out 6ppm a day at all, probably not even 5 either. That's why to be on the safe side, I'm recommending you aim for the number you know, which in this case, is 4.

[southpaw]

OK...from all the tests I have done it seems to be exactly at 4ppm according to the color card.

So I will just sit back and keep waiting for now. I have been testing every other day for now until I see a change then I will start testing daily.

I will be out of town from Sunday until Wednesday....would it effect alot if the nitrites kick in while I am gone and I don't replenish the ammonia supply until Wednesday ?

[NeonJulie]

If you're really concerned, you can leave a raw shrimp in the tank, in an unwashed but rinse panty hose, or a mesh filter bag, to decay in the meantime. Or use fish food (but it's really messy.) Either will give you a short time delay to carry through.

I'm curious - you mention no nitrites, but what is happening with the ammonia? How often are you replenishing it? How fast does it go down?

[southpaw]

The ammonia isnt going anywhere....it has been the same 4ppm from the first day I added it to the water. I havent added any since the first dosing 2 weeks ago.

I'm not going to add any more ammonia until the level drops and nitrites start showing up...This is why I asked about me being out of town ....If ammonia level drops and nitrites start rising I wont be home to add any ammonia to keep a 2-3ppm mix while the nitrites are spiking.

[NeonJulie]

Ok... well if it isn't moving yet, 4 days will probably not make a very large difference.

I have to think there is something odd here. Nothing has happened to your ammonia in 2-3 weeks? Nothing? Is the water dechlorinated?

What is your pH? If it's too high or too low, of favorable parameters it can stunt the process (although sounds like this unfortunately never got started.)

Do you have sufficient splash going on? Is there anything anti-microbial or anti-bacteria as far as decor, in the tank? I'm really reaching here, I can't imagine why nothing's happening.

You should look into obtaining media from a fish store, or from someone you know. Or you could try jump starting Bio-Spira, keep it cool, and hopefully it might get you started. (Although it didn't work for me.)

You could still raise the temp higher, if you want faster results, it makes bacteria reproduce faster.

[southpaw]

I am using Tetra Aquasafe to dechlorinate the water...

There was pretty good splash up until last night when I added about 1.5 gallons of water to top it off from evaporation. I adjusted the water from the faucet to match the tank temp and used dechlorinator before poring it in.

I will do a pH test now and post back results.

[southpaw]

pH test shows 7.8

This is the same pH reading I was getting from the first time I added water to the tank and the same reading I have gotton in the past when testing my tap water.

[Aphotic Phoenix]

Where do you live?

There may be an aquarist club nearby with members that could help donate filter media.

[southpaw]

I am in Lynnville, TN ...about 60 miles south of Nashville

[zazz]

to an earlier question: if the color matches at 4 it means 4. the color should graduate up to 8, not really take a big jump all at once.
I dont see the point in adding a shrimp, you have ammonisa in there.
i am not familiar with aquasafe, does it say it has something in there to"make ammonia safe" or words to that effect?
in that case I would suspect it of messing with the cycle and or the readings. worth a good reading of the bottle
In fact I would suggest ,empty the tank and begin again Without dechlorinator. ( it won't set you back)
Also, try raising your temp, The bacteria multiply faster at highr temps

Here are links to two articles by THE Freshwater cycle man, Dr Chris Cow.
Take note especially of the instructions regarding adding ammonia.
http://www.mikeandmarys.com/cycling.html (Originlly published in 1999)

http://malawicichlids.com/mw01017.htm Update, not sure of date

[southpaw]

Here is the info on the Tetra Aquasafe I am using....

http://www.tetra-fish.com/sites/tetrafish/catalog/productdetail.aspx?id=1276&cid=73

I have already raised the temp as suggested earlier today...I am setting at about 81* right now but I will wait to see what it tops out at since I just turned it up alittle and figure I would give it 24 hours or so to steady out then I can raise it alittle more if need be.

[southpaw]

Here is what the first sentence of the directions says on the back of the bottle:

"Aquasafe should be used when setting up a new aquarium and with every partial water change or evaporation replacement."

So I would assume it doesnt effect the ammonia any.....or atleast it doesnt mention the word ammonia anywhere on the bottle.

[ct-death]

Higher Temps will indeed increase the bacterial growth rates

NOT using a dechlorinator is bad! The chlorides and chlorine present in tap water is specifically designed to KILL bacterias...

Ammonia over 6ppm (more so at 8+) will indeed have a negative effect on your bacterias as again it creates a very unfavorable enviroment for the bacterias and actually kills some off, although the noticable die-offs really don't happen until you get over 8-10ppm IME.

Probably more important ... Are you certain that you are using 'pure' Ammonia without Sufficants OR Purfumes OR Dyes???

Lastly, in a completely new tank, it could easily be 2-3 weeks before you can start to read nirtItes in the test kits. This doesn't mean it isn't there though! As for the ammonia not dropping....hmm? I would have suspected a slight drop off, but nothing big until you start to read your Ites.

[NeonJulie]

Pretty sure it was said they're using ACE Hardware Janitorial Strength, so it should be fine.

But that doesn't stall a cycle, believe you me. I had NitrItes AND NitrAtes the 11 days I cycled with detergent ammonia.

[silentskream]

try turning the temp down to 75.

check your LFS, they may have prepackaged bacteria.. i normally wouldn't use it, but after two weeks it may be worth it. (biospyra was mentioned earlier, but i've had better luck with Cycle)

also, try buying a potted plant for your tank.. the moss in the pots usually has a good bit of bacteria.

good luck!

[ct-death]

Sorry I must have missed the ammonia source...

I'm not so sure that ammonia with additives will yield the same results. I realize that nitrItes and thus the cycle will still initiate, but I'm not sure on the effects.

On a new 75G tank I helped to cycle w/ only ammonia it took us 17 days before I could be sure I was reading any measurable nitrItes FWIW.

[southpaw]

I will keep waiting and testing for no and hope for the best.... I will be able to test it Saturday before I leave to go out of town and then again when I get back Wednesday night... so really I guesss I should hope it doesnt really get going until I get back so i can dose and test as needed.

Thanks for all the input and I will post back any changes when they happen.

[severum mama]

Cycle is pretty worthless according to most. Bio Spira is really hit or miss. I'd just hold out and save the money on bacterial additive products... but I really hope things move along soon because I can only imagine how frustrating this is for you!

[jm1212]

most cycling products dont work. bio-spira will, but even then it only works part of the time because it needs to be refridgerated almost constantly

every tank is different, but the cycling process as a whole shouldn be completed in less than 8 weeks.

[southpaw]

Ok...I may have alittle info on what might be happening. I emailed Tetra to inquire about me using their AquaSafe with BioExtract to start my fishless cycle. Here is what they emailed me back.......



" Hi and thanks for the inquiry! It is possible that the Aquasafe with
BioExtract will have an affect on you Nitrite spike. The logic behind
me saying that is the BioExtract is the beneficial bacteria
(nitrosospira, nitrosomonas and nitrospira) that will "consume" the
Nitrites (specifuically the nitrosospira and nitrospira, nitrosomonas
mainly consuming ammonia). You can get similar results from using
Bio-spira for the same reasons. I have had tanks cycle in about 5 days
with no readable ammonia or Nitrite spikes because they basically passed
so fast I never could read them! The ammonia, of course, should convert
to Nitrites and they likely are, but the BioExtract bacteria are
converting them again to Nitrates. What kind of Nitrate readings are
you getting if any?

Thank you!

Tetra Care "




I just did a Nitrate test and it showed 0ppm.....so I am still not sure about using it. I have replied back with the Nitrate results and am now waiting to see what kind of info they can give me now. I will keep the post updated as to what they tell me as maybe it might help someone else that is using the AquaSafe when starting a fishless cycle.

[southpaw]

Well I just finished my daily testing for ammonia and nitrites...I only tested for nitrates earlier to answer the email from Tetra....

Well now I am showing .25ppm nitrites and ammonia looks to be around the 3ppm level (slightly lighter than 4 on color chart)

Hopefully I am well on my way now and just jumped the gun by a few days by starting this thread....

My next question will fall back on me leaving town for 4 days again.... Will the nitites consume all my ammonia in the 4 days and stall my cycle?? I can test in the morning and dose a few more drops of ammonia if need be but that would still leave 3.5 days for nitrites to spike and ammonia levels to drop....I would hate to kill my cycle now just because I am away from home a few days.

I guess I could feed the tank alittle food too if it might help it get thru the days I am gone but would the food have time to produce any ammonia that would be benificial to the cycle in just a few days??

[Aphotic Phoenix]

I'd throw in a frozen shrimp a few days in advance to give it a chance to start decaying...

I forget what size tank you have...if it's small I'd only use half a shrimp...if it's larger use a whole one...and put it in a clean unused nylon stocking before throwing it in there so it's easier to remove.

[southpaw]

Tank is a 55 gallon.....leaving around noon tomorrow so not much advance time to work with

[Phil22]

Doing what you're doing (without shrimp), took my 55g 8 weeks to cycle. Actually, I felt it was cycled in about 6, but waited another 2 to be sure.

[charlie_stubbs]

i also have a 55gallon and it cycled in 6 weeks
nitrites weren't readable until week 3, then went off the charts and stayed that way for another 2 weeks, then suddenly dropped overnight to 0ppm.

[jm1212]

it sounds like your cycle is about at the halfway mark. you'll probably have nitrites and ammoina for a little bit, and then it should start to go down

[southpaw]

Just got back from my trip.....

Checked ammonia and nitrites. Ammonia was basically at 0ppm and nitrites were almost off the chart. I dosed it with some more ammonia and will get it back to around 2-3ppm and all should be good now.

[silentskream]

awesome! sounds like you're almost ready to get some fishies!

[southpaw]

awesome! sounds like you're almost ready to get some fishies!

Yup...hopefully in a few more weeks I will be all set. I am getting pretty tired of looking at an empty aquarium :headshake2:

[ct-death]

Just got back from my trip.....

Checked ammonia and nitrites. Ammonia was basically at 0ppm and nitrites were almost off the chart. I dosed it with some more ammonia and will get it back to around 2-3ppm and all should be good now.

Does the nitrification :dance: for you! :cool: