Test for Chlorine

[Impudence12]

It's coming on 2 weeks (13 days) of my fishy cycling. I know my water has chloramine in it. Since the start I've used the recommended dose of prime (more like a drop more cus I'm paranoid) I have a decent amount of plants and 2 rosy barbs happily swiming around. I've been told the first part of they cycle takes 1-3 weeks. In the morning I do about a 40% water change, then later in the day a 20% one, maybe twice. The ammonia is always a greenish shade somewhere around .25 and .50. The colors are so similar it's just looking green to me now. Most of the time I think its less than the .25 shade. I'm under the impression I'm doing everything I can to keep it right. I'm just getting more paranoid as the days go by. What is the chance that there is still chlorine killing whatever nitrifying bacteria is showing up? Should I get a chlorine test to check to make sure?

[DarkSoul]

if your using prime, then there is no chance that there is chlorine/chloramine killing anything off, if used as per the instructions for removing chloramine.

in doing so, prime will also break the bond of chlorine and ammonia, removing the chlorine, and detoxifying the ammonia left behind, allowing it to be useful to the cycle.

your ammonia level should be around 1 - 1.5 ppm for your cycle to go anywhere.

[Madness]

I'm not sure what readings are available on your kit, nor do I know what size tank you have. I'm wondering if you're not seeing any ammonia at all, which wouldn't be surprising with plants and a small fish load in a decent sized tank. Plants will take up ammonia over nitrite and nitrate. If this is occuring your tank will still cycle, just slower and much easier on the fish. What you'll need to watch for is nitrite. Depending on nutrient levels and plant growth, the plants may continue consuming new ammonia in competition with the nitrifying bacteria leaving the nitrite in the water. If this occurs the nitrite will spike and cycle as normal without ever achieving any measurable ammonia levels.

[Impudence12]

I definitly have ammonia levels. I have an API test thing. It's just yellow green vs green yellow as the colors for .25 and .50 and after awhile it all looks the same.

No cycling thing, rather no fish in cycling thing mentions what is too much ammonia for fish. I've seen .25 ppms written in places. I haven't found a cycling guide that suggests to keep the ammonia at 1-1.5ppms (besides the 4ppms for fishless) I technically don't have any solid text to say that the ammonia has to be at a certain ammount to have the cycle start, but from my basic knowledge of how bacteria works I don't think bacteria would avoid an area with any ammount of food they could use.

Is there something, or someone, else to corroborate the 1 ppm for ammonia advice?

[davexstumpe]

If your using prime then theres no chlorine.

i'd say maybe within the week hopefully, the nitrite will start to show up and the ammonia will begin to go down.

what size tank? and only 2 rosy barbs in it?

maybe try getting a packet of biospira to boost your cycle along.

Keep up with those water changes and dosing of prime.

[Impudence12]

it's only a 15 gallon (Altho I'm quite sure there's not more than 11 gallons in it) 20x10x18 15 Tall I think is what it's called.

A side note, to add more fish, should I wait until the complete cycle is done, or add a couple more fish after the ammonia is down to 0 and repeat as the bacteria catches up to the fish bioload?

[davexstumpe]

definately do not add anythign until the ammonia and nitrite are both down to zero for a few days.

[Madness]

I agree with dave. Wait until the cycle is complete to add anything else. You have more than enough to cycle the tank and adding more will cause higher ammonia and nitrite spikes.

I give you a thumbs up on the plants. They help a lot with the ammonia portion of the cycle. If the tank is large enough and the fish small enough you can even get lucky and cycle with no measurable ammonia.

[Aphotic Phoenix]

Just so you know...the breaking down of chloramine produces a little bit of ammonia, but Prime keeps that ammonia (and some of the ammonia produced by the fish) in it's less toxic form. It will still show up on your ammonia tests, and bacteria can still eat it.

Keep up the good work. ^^

[Impudence12]

The bacteria that consumes nitrites into nitrates, does that step of the cycle takes another 1-3 weeks? Nobody seems to ever want to touch on how long the various parts of the cycle take, just the 4-6 weeks for the whole thing.
I knew about the chloramine ammonia thing, that's how I figured out I had chloramine instead of just chlorine.

[davexstumpe]

well the individual parts of the cycle differ from tank to tank.

personally my ammonia went up and within a week my nitrite, but my nitrite spiked for a good 3-4 weeks until it finally dropped.

[Aphotic Phoenix]

I think it took about another two weeks for my nitrite to nitrate bacteria to set in, but of course it varies. Even after that finishes I would recommend checking once or twice a day for a few more weeks to make sure everything is stabilized. I used to get tiny ammonia spikes (less than .25 ppm) for a few weeks after my tank cycled. I was adding about 1-2 fish per week at that point though.

[DarkSoul]

ive done reading on cycling with ammonium chloride, and they state to use 1 - 1.5 ppm of ammonia.

the process would be the same with regular ammonia (ammonium hydroxide), but everything ive read on cycling, has said about 1.5 ppm is the ideal number.... at least it is for ammonim chloride, I think 4 - 5 ppm is whats needed for household ammonia.


here is a good article on cycling
http://www.csupomona.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/Ammonia.html

[Impudence12]

That's for fishless cycling. Every website and cycling article casts fishy cycling as a crime that shouldn't be done ever and thus don't mention a thing about the specifics. I imagine they just hope that the propaganda will keep people from trying it. The only problem with that is that there's no good info on how to do it as safely as possible because everyone seems too busy trying to get people to stop. It's an inevitablity that needs to be throughly explained even if it's an unappealing option.

[mostlycichlids]

You are on the right track. Keep doing what you are doing. You want to keep the ammonia under.50 during a fishy cycle. Meanwhile keep dosing prime as it will detoxify the ammonia. The 2nd part of the cycle is right around the corner and patience is all you need. IME the start of the cycle is the longest part and once your ammonia goes down and nitrites start to show up it will go fast.

Most folks look down on fishy cycling because any amount of ammonia can damage a fish for life. It is a fairly known fact that gill damage and other problems can arise from any ammonia concentrations above .25ppm. There is always ammonia in a tank rather cycled or not but the concentrations are usually not detectable on most tests.

[jm1212]

the cycle itself can take up to 8 weeks, but there sint a set time when ammoina will stop showing up and nitrite will just start. it takes longer for some tanks to get rid of ammonia, and others nitrite, while some tanks are stuck in a phase where they have ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. it will eventually cycle though

[nickmcmechan]

It's coming on 2 weeks (13 days) of my fishy cycling. I know my water has chloramine in it. Since the start I've used the recommended dose of prime (more like a drop more cus I'm paranoid) I have a decent amount of plants and 2 rosy barbs happily swiming around. I've been told the first part of they cycle takes 1-3 weeks. In the morning I do about a 40% water change, then later in the day a 20% one, maybe twice. The ammonia is always a greenish shade somewhere around .25 and .50. The colors are so similar it's just looking green to me now. Most of the time I think its less than the .25 shade. I'm under the impression I'm doing everything I can to keep it right. I'm just getting more paranoid as the days go by. What is the chance that there is still chlorine killing whatever nitrifying bacteria is showing up? Should I get a chlorine test to check to make sure?
i'm not sure from what you are saying if you are using the correct dose of prime?

[severum mama]

your ammonia level should be around 1 - 1.5 ppm for your cycle to go anywhere.
Not if you're cycling with fish. That can be a lethal level for a fishy cycle. That's why the fishless cycle is often quicker than cycling with fish, because you can get the ammonia up to 3-4 ppm and just let it rip. But, for fishy cycling, it is best to do whatever water changes are necessary to keep ammonia and nitrite under .25.

[Impudence12]

It calls for 2 drops per gallon, I have a 2.5 gallon bucket and I fill it up around the 2 gallon mark and put in 5 drops.
I'm relatively comfortable with the situation now that I've been reassured on the process as a whole. I just need to be patient, the hardest part by far.

[severum mama]

You'll be fine! I use a Python to drain and fill all my FW tanks. When I fill each tank, I just dose the tank with Prime and fill with tap water. Even my discus don't have trouble with that.

[hitman12131976]

It's hard to measure when the Nitrites kick in and end and then the Nitrates start. I don't know anyone whom has ever measured or timed this. I was able to cycle my tank (fishy style) in 3 weeks. Other take 8 weeks doing the same things I did. I think the cycle varies from tank to tank.

[DarkSoul]

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH ..... i obviously missed where you mentioned having fish in the tank.....
sorry....


ill step out now :)

[Madness]

That's for fishless cycling. Every website and cycling article casts fishy cycling as a crime that shouldn't be done ever and thus don't mention a thing about the specifics. I imagine they just hope that the propaganda will keep people from trying it. The only problem with that is that there's no good info on how to do it as safely as possible because everyone seems too busy trying to get people to stop. It's an inevitablity that needs to be throughly explained even if it's an unappealing option.

Even more than no information is information that virtually guarantees failures. The following quote is from another board that I wont mention because it is a good board and because I don't want to create any bashing:


Stock the tank with fish at no more than ½ its’ full stocking capacity. This is calculated by using ½ inch of slender-bodied fish per gallon. Only the body is counted when calculating the length of the fish in inches.... don't count the fins!

Follow this and you'll be changing water 15 times a day and still loosing fish. According to this I should have a max of 75 young White Cloud Minnows in the 150 I'm breaking in right now. Missing is also any mention of plants and their tremendous help during cycling. One can have a detectable ammonia free cycle with a $3.00 handfull of floating Hornwort that will grow in just about any tank.

The idea is for the tank to be successful. To do that is relatively simple. Put in some easy growing floating plants and stock to a max of one slim bodied 1" fish per ten gallons - MAX. Less is even better. Perform 50% water changes with heavy vacuuming weekly, more often when detectable nitrites emerge or if detectable ammonia emerges.

It's all about having a managable bioload during cycling. Stock too much and the tank gets overwhelmed, even with plants.

[Impudence12]

Good news, my tank, dispite me missing my second water change for the day, ammonia levels are less than .25. Normally at this time it's somewhere around .5 with a water change earlier. No nitrites tho, I guess tomorow I'll have no ammonia. I hope.

[Cyberpaddy66]

Keep calm and think of how your tank will look when it's finished cycling, my 20L tank took less than a few days for the ammonia to appear and then took a couple of weeks to drop, the nitrites took almost 3 weeks to start dropping and even then I seeded the tank with old filter wool from my 1st 20L tank.

If you can get some used filter wool from a healthy tank that has already finished it's cycle then things will go a lot faster, just put it in a bag (pair of tights) and hang it in the tank or else if your filter has room put it in on top of your existing filter wool and leave it in until the cycle finishes.

I'm no expert and actually only been at this hobby for the last 6 months so I hope my advice helps and is not wrong (please feel free to correct me anyone!).