Caught in the act - Bolivian rams spawned

[Richard McC]

After a week of flirting, they finally got around to it! And I caught them at it, by accident. A first-time spawn.

For the record, pH = 7.8, GH 7 = 125 ppm CaCO3, KH 5 = 90 ppm CaCO3. Temp. 75 F.

[Mgamer20o0]

looks great. keep us updated on the fry.

[Fungi]

Great! Hope they weren't embarrased when you walked in on them...

[Lukee]

haha cute babies

[J double R]

i dont see any babies... theyre just eggs? lol.

[Fungi]

Baby eggs :D

[J double R]

as opposed to adult eggs? :p:

[divingne1]

Congrats Richard. Keep us updated with photos.

[rwilliams254]

What no gold chains and shag carpet?

Congrats!

[jjanoch]

I had a similar good fortune to see my new Blue Rams doing the same thing...but unfortunately it doesn't look like they were successful as I don't have the egg pile afterwards. One or both must have been shooting blanks but they sure rubbed their underneaths on the slate piece long enough.

[jm1212]

make sure to keep us updated on the eggs and fry

[Fungi]

Was that a typo or did you really have the pH at 7.8? I've always thought that they prefered slightly acidic water than slightly basic

[divingne1]

jjanoch - nothing wrong with practicing!!!

[Richard McC]

Was that a typo or did you really have the pH at 7.8? I've always thought that they prefered slightly acidic water than slightly basic

No typo. Our tapwater is soft but very alkaline (usually 7.8-8.1). I've tried to acidify it but this has led to fluctuations in the past, and the general advice from the experts has been that steadiness is the important thing. That said, I do acidify the change water for 10% changes, otherwise I'd be over 8.0 probably.

[Richard McC]

Less than 24 hours after spawning, mother has chased father from the nest. Not in line with the literature, but I daresay that she hasn't read it.

I worry for father's psychological health. Will he have Post Traumatic Spawning Disorder? Should I arrange for counselling?

[divingne1]

WOMEN!!!

[Richard McC]

48 hours after the blessed event, mother is still guarding her eggy treasure. She allows other fish to within an inch or so, then chases them away with a nip for their trouble. Two small festivum are treated with less tolerance, but father is not permitted within a foot.

I wonder if she didn't catch him snacking on some eggs. There are fewer than before.......

[gmh]

How do you acidify your change water?

[divingne1]

48 hours after the blessed event, mother is still guarding her eggy treasure. She allows other fish to within an inch or so, then chases them away with a nip for their trouble. Two small festivum are treated with less tolerance, but father is not permitted within a foot.

I wonder if she didn't catch him snacking on some eggs. There are fewer than before.......

Or maybe he was checking out another woman looking like this :drool:

[Richard McC]

And they are hatching at this minute!

Something that I've never realized before; the eggs don't hatch by themselves, like chickens.

Mother has decided that it's time, so she picks up a number of eggs in her mouth, chews a bit (gently, I hope) and spits the wrigglers into a nearby shallow pit. I guess she recycles the shells.

Father is still not permitted nearby.

gmh asks ' How do you acidify your change water?'. I just add some Seachem acid buffer and some alkali buffer to bring the change water down to neutral or so.

[Fungi]

Yay for the fry! Hope this spawning is succesful

[Richard McC]

Little to report in the daily update.

Mother still stands guard over her little pit of wrigglers (very shallow, by the way; no more than pea-size); father not permitted anywhere near, and looks very disconsolate.

I do hope that one day they will make up.

[new2tanks]

This is a hilarious yet informative thread.keep us posted and pics please!

[divingne1]

Do you have them in a tank of their own?

[Richard McC]

divingne1 asked if they have their own tank.

No, they're in a 6 foot community, surrounded by voracious tetras and fearsome corydoras. Obviously this spawn won't survive, but

1) at least I know that I have a compatible pair
2) they will improve their parenting skills this way
3) I am learning a lot through watching.

Re (2), perhaps mother will learn that chasing father to the far end of the tank may not be the ideal model for shared parenting. Equally, father may learn that eggs are a precious gift, not (if my suspicions are correct) snack food .

Anyway, for today's update, the little wrigglers are still being guarded in their little hole. Occasionally one makes a break for freedom, and may get as far as a half-inch away from the nest before mother picks it up and spits it back onto the little writhing pile.

If/when they become free-swimming, she will be tearing her hair out.

[Rbishop]

Very interesting!

[divingne1]

Richard...I have 2 pair of GBR and one pair plain ole suck at parenting (they both ate both clutches of eggs so far) and my awesome parents are a female GBR and a male long-finned ram (i have been told it is a GBR as well but he doesn't have to same coloring but he is stunning just the same). The male (long-finned) is an incredible dad while the mother is "Rocky". She tore into anyone that even thought of coming close to her babies. The father ran a few off but he also let my discus's get closer than the female did (I have them in a community tank as well). When the fry start swimming, I found they stay close to the father and then he may trade off with the mother. But it is really cool to watch and I hope you get the opportunity because the father "trembles" and the fish come swimming up to him if they get too far away. He was more gentle with scooping the babies up and cleaning them than the female was but she did her fair share of the work.

The sad part is, the father started leaving the babies alone for a short period of time to go eat (he got bored I guess) and the neons made quick work of most of the babies (made the neons become my least favorite fast). I also found that each morning when I awoke, the # of babies dwindled until their were none left. The next go-round, I am going to do a tank divider until my 10g fry tank is ready.

[divingne1]

Also, I started feeding the babies "First Bites" when they were no longer wigglers but swimming. They really liked it and became very active when I would squirt that in the tank..the father, however, tried his best to kill the turkey baister. It is just all so cool to watch even though I knew the babies most likely wouldn't survive in that environment.

[lucky777ca]

Congratulations on the babies :)

[pugr]

Congrats and cigars all around!

[Richard McC]

Thank you all for the kind words.

Little enough to report today. Mother still stands guard, but doesn't seem so insistent about the little wrigglers staying in exactly the same place, so that quite a few of them are now spread over an area of a square inch or so. It's hard to tell where they are as they're so small that, to see them, you have to kind of unfocus your eyes and see the movement. She is quite happy to leave them alone for a short while to grab some lunch, but returns fairly quickly. I don't think any other tank inhabitants are aware that they're there yet.

divingne1, your GBRs sound very sweet and feisty.

[Richard McC]

The wrigglers have now been transferred to a new home - a deeper pit some four inches away under the leaves of a sword-plant.

This makes sense; they had been escaping from their shallow nest, and it'll be a lot easier to keep them in one place if that place is at the bottom of a deep hole.

Mother knows best.

For the record, this is the first transfer, at 75 hours after hatching.

[divingne1]

This is so cool to hear. They should start swimming within a day or so. As soon as they do, start feeding them their baby food. They will be hungry because they lost their yolk sac.

My good pair of GBR just laid eggs again last night. I think I am going to put up a tank divider this time.

[rich311k]

Congrats, good luck.

[bettagurl]

After a week of flirting, they finally got around to it! And I caught them at it, by accident. A first-time spawn.

For the record, pH = 7.8, GH 7 = 125 ppm CaCO3, KH 5 = 90 ppm CaCO3. Temp. 75 F.

cool 8)
I wish my germans would spawn, they keep digging holes everywhere, but no eggs yet.

[ostrangeone89]

My swordtail hasn't had babies yet! lol It's taken her a couple months even to go near the male, she kinda likes him now and flirts with him! I'm glad she doesn't try to attack him anymore and my male isn't always bugging her! He is a gentlemen now! lol

[Richard McC]

Free-swimming, six days after hatching. A little cloud of, at a guess, 50 or 60 babies, from maybe 150 eggs (very hard to count). I'd post pics, but the camera doesn't do extreme close-ups very well.

Mother is taking her clutch on excursions. She controls them with complex flutterings of her pectoral fins, and maybe with other signals that are too subtle for me to detect. Some of the more adventurous fry go astray, but either rejoin the clutch at a flickering of fins or are chase down, picked up and spat back where they belong. There is a fair bit of mulm in the gravel and they seem to be eating something - also grazing over rock surfaces.

I'm not deluding myself that they can eat properly in their current environment, , but they may live a while yet. On that subject, there have been no a(witnessed) attempts at predation from any other fish.

Father would like nothing better than to help out, but is refused access.

[Star_Rider]

they may have found some daphnia or other small critter( pods)

you may want to consider hatching out some BBS(baby brine shrimp)
they will exhaust the natural food source quickly

[irondan]

very cool. i have 4 bolivians and 2 balloons and i've been waiting patiently for spawning but no luck yet. nice looking pair

[dieselman]

What a exciting event to witness! :)

[Richard McC]

Thank you all for your comments and suppport.

I will soon fall victim to multiple tank syndrome and transfer my pair to a new honeymoon suite. More of my weekend will be devoted to the lugging of buckets. (no easy Python solutions here in Canberra; water is as precious as petrol).

If my lovers spawn again, and if mother does not kill father (in defiance of the rule books re M. Altispinosa), and if I can somehow keep up a constant supply of food to the voracious fry between my job and my life, I may raise a bunch of beautiful new fishies.

What then?

LFS may take them, I guess.

Put them on eBay?

Return them to the wild?:lol:

[kr0nic]

Hook a newcastle brother up with some :p

[Richard McC]

You've 3 already, Kr0nic!

[kr0nic]

But there so cooool :D:werd:

[divingne1]

So the babies still doing well Richard? I am very interested in their outcome because I have GBR that spawn all the time in my community tank. Getting a fry tank set up this weekend. Going to get the sponge filter today.