How often and how much for water changes? (And much more)

[lippy415]

I am starting a 125gal African cichlid tank. I am wondering how often and how much water I should change. We have one of those pythons, so I'm hoping it will not be too difficult. We filled it on Sunday and the LFS told us to put 6 cichlids in tomorrow and then wait 30 days and put in more. (That goes against what the stickie says about cycling, too!) But I have read so many different things, just wondering from you all what works. 1/4 of the water every week? 1/2 the water every month? I am clueless. I know you have to test the water daily also. Dumb question - what am I looking for? I know I need a ph of around 8 and the temp to be around 80. What else? I ordered a ton of stuff on the Dr. Foster and Smith website. I got some stuff that is supposed to maintain a healthy ph for cichlids, and the LFS guy told me I HAD to have Nitromax. What other chemicals do you guys put in? My questions are all over the place, I apologize. The tank looks so awesome and I'm so excited to get fish, but not sure if I should follow the recommendation from the petstore and get some tomorrow or to add ammonia and wait. Also - what do you feed your cichlids? All the ones I'm getting are omnivores. I bought cichlid flakes and cichlid pellets from Foster & Smith, and thought I should supplement with brine shrimp every so often. Is that enough of a varied diet? Any advice is appreciated. I was just going to ask about water changes then I couldn't stop typing!

Erin

[BV77]

IMO the key to healthy fish is regular partial water changes. The regularity and amount will vary depending on who you ask. Personally I do 25% weekly. Some folks do waterchanges every other week. If you miss a week or change too much water at once, it can shock the fish. So my advise would be to pick a schedule and stick to it.

[jm1212]

you shoudl do weekly water changes of 25%

dont add any fish until your tank is cycled. when the tank is cycling, the ammonia nd nitrite reach very high and dangerous levels that harm the gills and sometimes even the bodies of the fish.

other than water conditioner (and cichlid buffers if your pH is under 7), there isnt anything you need to add to the water.

lots of rockwork, especially in a cichlid tank. it will help raise the pH and keep aggression levels lower.

african cichlids are herbavors and shouldnt have alot of protien in their diet. if you can find pellets or foods that are specificly for african cihlids, then that would work well.

[lippy415]

So here is my problem, after reading the newbie stickie regarding cycling 10 times, I'm still not sure where I fall. We got the tank from my father-in-law. He emptied the tank and rinsed the gravel and cleaned all the artificial plants. We are using all his filters and such. So is it the established tank one or do I start fresh for the fishless cycling? My shipment is arriving tomorrow from Foster & Smith. When doing the water test, how will I know if it is ready for fish or if I should add ammonia and start the fishless cycling? I should probably be posting all this in the newbie section, I apologize.

Erin

Thanks for the water change advice, I will do the weekly 25% changes!

[lippy415]

Another note - We actually have four fish in there right now. His father-in-law told us that they would be fine in the tank. He has had them for years and swears they'll be fine. They have been in there for 3 days but I keep feeling bad like I'm hurting them. I called a buddy today that has a tank and asked her if she would take them and put them in her tank so they don't get damaged. So when they are taken out can I start the fishless cycle or did having had them in there for a few days do anything? There is an angel, a clown loach, a catfish and an algae eater. My father-in-law also told me they would all be fine with cichlids. He obviously doesn't know what he's talking about because even though I have never had fish I've read tons of books and know that you can't put all those together! I just want African cichlids, nothing else.

Erin

[jm1212]

start the fishless cycling, and dose the ammonia so that the reading come up as 5ppm (any more stalls the cycle). you will probably go through a short, mini-fishless cycle. keep dosing for a couple of days after the ammonia level stays at 0, and you'll be set to fully stock the tank.

and angel will NOT be fine with african cihlids. it will get torn to shreds; the african cichlids are just to aggressive for it.

clown loaches will nto be fine either. not only will it need a bigger tank, but the africans are to aggressive for them also.

what type of algea eater do you have?

[lippy415]

I have no idea what kind of algae eater. I wish I knew... So I should give all these fish to my friend before putting the ammonia in, right?

[Mgamer20o0]

yes.... dont put ammonia in with fish in the tank. if the filter was left wet for a hour or so you might be fine. right now your cycling the tank my guess. the sooner you get them out and start a fishless cycle the better i think.

i do weekly 50% water changes. 20% is fine but its really easy on to change and the plants outside love the water.

[nickmcmechan]

eri, got to say i admire for doing your research properly and backing it up with advice here for clarity

got to say i agree with all of the above

so, fish out to friend, can't put them back, cycle the tank with ammonia, wait will ammonia falls to zero consistently after dosing, wait till nitrites rise (must have the rise first) then fall to zero, do big water change to get nitrates down below 5-10ppm, then add fish, couple at a time.....dont leave too long between adding fish or africans will establish territory quickly and become overly agressive

[lippy415]

Awesome, I love this board. I was really stressed not knowing what the heck to do. Thanks, all.

Erin

[kay-bee]

How much and how often you perform water changes depends on variables (quantity of fish in tank, size of the fish, rate of weekly nitrate accumulation, feeding levels, waste production, tank volume, etc). Ideally you'll want to maintain nitrates below 40ppm, and depending on variables a 25% water change every 2 weeks might suffice or 50% weekly.

If you have a friend who is going to hold your fish until your tank is cycled (presumeably you're going the fishless cycle route), see if you can obtain some of his/her biological media (unrinsed and 'dirty') to add to your filters and accelerate the process a bit.

[silentskream]

since you're getting this tank used, there's a good chance that your cycle won't take as long as it normally does for a new tank with a new filter and new everything else.

some people overstock their african cichlid tanks, so they need water changes more often. my advice is to keep an eye on your nitrates.. if they start getting high, then you should do a water change, and if it took a week and a half to get high, then do them every week

[FishyMatty]

I don't see why anyone would only do a 25% water change. If you have a huge tank with only a few small fish thats fine but thats usually not the case. It is almost impossible to vacuum the whole substrate and only take out 25% of the water. Unless you are going to be really careful about over feeding which most newbies are not, your going to need to do a really good job at cleaning the gravel.
Just for reference I do 75% water change in my discus tank every 3 days, 50% in my apisto/angel tank 2x week and almost 100% water change in my dwarf puffer tank 1x week.
Most likely you will have to keep up on daily water changes if your tank isn't cycled properly. If you see your fish at any point trying to breathe at the surface that means your nitrites are up and your tank isn't cycled yet.
It is possible to cycle a tank with some fish but you need to constantly monitor your ammonia/nitrite and at any sign of either do a huge water change. Also make sure to use a water conditioner before you put tap water in your tank, chlorine is just as dangerous as ammonia.

Another thing. Unless your tap water is way out of range of neutral I wouldn't add anything to the water to change the ph.
You can add crushed coral to the substrate or to the filter but don't add chemicals to alter the ph. That is difficult to get right even for the most experienced fish keepers.
as long as your ph isn't below 6 I wouldn't worry about it. You can add the cichlid supplement to the water but make sure you only replace what you take out at water changes. That stuff just gives them the minerals and vitamins that is in their natural water.
Good luck and remember the easier it is for you to do water changes the easier it will be for the fish.

[lippy415]

So I just got my water kit and my ammonia, nitrates, and nitrites are all at 0. Does that mean my tank cycled itself or should I still cycle it? Turns out my friend does not want my fish. :( I guess they are too big and would eat her fish. Guess I'll make a donation to the LFS.

Erin

[cdfishie123]

gosh, Fish Matty, thats a lot of water
i do a 25% water change weekly and gravel vacuum once a month(takes almost up to 75% water

[jm1212]

even though you take out 25% of the water, the acctual ammount of gallons that are taken out can vary. obvoiously, 25% of a ten gallon is more than 25% of a 100 gallon. when you take out more water, you have more time to go through the substrate.

25% is a good plact to start at. if you want, you can change more.

[Mgamer20o0]

So I just got my water kit and my ammonia, nitrates, and nitrites are all at 0. Does that mean my tank cycled itself or should I still cycle it? Turns out my friend does not want my fish. :( I guess they are too big and would eat her fish. Guess I'll make a donation to the LFS.

Erin

its not cycled. maybe they will give you store credit.

[cdfishie123]

even though you take out 25% of the water, the acctual ammount of gallons that are taken out can vary. obvoiously, 25% of a ten gallon is more than 25% of a 100 gallon. when you take out more water, you have more time to go through the substrate.

25% is a good plact to start at. if you want, you can change more.


i think you got it switched. 25% of a 100 gallon is more that 25%of a 10 gallon

[kay-bee]

So I just got my water kit and my ammonia, nitrates, and nitrites are all at 0. Does that mean my tank cycled itself or should I still cycle it? Turns out my friend does not want my fish. :( I guess they are too big and would eat her fish. Guess I'll make a donation to the LFS.

Erin

The tank is not cycled due to the lack of detectable nitrates. Detectable ammonia and nitrite levels will develop soon (they're undetectable now due to the relatively light bio load and the fact that the 125gal was recently set up.)

See if your friend can at least spare some used filter media.

Alternatively, if you can obtain it, try using Bio-Spira, a refrigerated live bacteria starter product that can greatly assist in the cycle process (works best when ammonia and nitrites are at very low levels). Otherwise daily/near-daily water changes will be required to reduce the pending ammonia and nitrite levels.


...Also - what do you feed your cichlids? All the ones I'm getting are omnivores. I bought cichlid flakes and cichlid pellets from Foster & Smith, and thought I should supplement with brine shrimp every so often. Is that enough of a varied diet? Any advice is appreciated...
Erin

Exactly what species of cichlids are you planning on getting?

[kay-bee]

...african cichlids are herbavors and shouldnt have alot of protien in their diet...

Not entirely correct. "African cichlids" are a very diverse group. While there are herbivores (many of the mbuna species, tropheus, etc) many are also carnivores/piscavores and thrive on high protein diets (such as peacocks, various lake Malawi 'haps' and many of the Lake Tanganyika species, etc).

[lippy415]

We're going to get Lake Malawi cichlids. I want pretty yellows and blues for the kids. I was checking out the cookie cutter guidelines from cichlid-forum.com. I'll probably pick one of their suggestions since I'm not sure what I'm doing. :)

Erin

[silentskream]

obvoiously, 25% of a ten gallon is more than 25% of a 100 gallon.

...huhh? i think that's backwards.

[LaurelB]

Hi Erin - Just because a tank and the stuff in it is old, it doesn't necessarily help you. You need to build up the bacterica in the tank after it's filled with water. Washing gravel and filters can actually be bad. If you wash all of the materials in your filter with tap water, the clorine can kill the helpful bacteria. If you clean your gravel too much, same thing. Bacterica need food. I wouldn't add any more fish until you're sure that your tank has cycled completely. Don't rely on the LFS's opinions. They want to sell you fish....

[Rbishop]

I am a big proponent of frequent large water changes. Especially if the tank is over stocked for whatever reason. I always push 30-50% at least once a week if not 2 or 3 times.

[charlie_stubbs]

I am a big proponent of frequent large water changes. Especially if the tank is over stocked for whatever reason. I always push 30-50% at least once a week if not 2 or 3 times.
i have a 55gal, and i change about a third of the water each week. i was going to start a thread asking what the max amount i should change per week was, but its seems you've already answered. i'll go with 50% from now on. Thanks.

[sandsifter]

I do 25 to 50 % every 2or 3 weeks It is not an exact % i do . when i sift the substraight and i feel it is clean i call it quits. IMO the key with cichlids is over filtering. I use a wisper 60 on a 29gl and i havent had a prob yet. i make my own floss and the tank is cristal clear.Fish are pets just like a dog they need to be cleaned and taken out too.(you know what i mean) i just hate when peole just jump into a fish tank and think feed them and they will take care of them self.(dont want to offend anyone.if your on AC i know u care) Just spread the word
Good luck with the new tank