View Full Version : Overstocking?
I am just setting up a 100 Gallon Tropical Freshwater tank and plan to have the following fish:
6 Angelfish
1 King Tiger Pleco
3 Clown Plecos
30 Rummy Nose Tetras
1 Red Tiger Sail Fin Pleco
4 Clown Loaches
2 Camaroon Armoured Shrimp
3 Ladder Loaches
2 Bala Sharks
1 Bristlenose Pleco
2 Brochis Britskii
6 Otocinclus Affinis
10 Kuhli Loaches
4 Ram Cichlids
The tank is filtered by 2 Fluval 403 filters and will be heavily planted.
Opinions?
superjohnny
06-11-2003, 1:54 PM
That's an awful lot of fish. Add your fish slowly and watch nitrate, nitrite & amonia levels and you'll find out if it'll hold that many.
Yeah, I realise its a lot.
Just wondering if it's do-able(sp?)?
I only intend to keep the Clown loaches only until they are about 5 inches and the Bala Sharks only until they are about 6 inches.
With good maintenance and regular water changes? maybe?
OrionGirl
06-11-2003, 2:40 PM
That will be very overstocked at adult sizes.
The angels will probably fight, once the mature and pair off.
The clowns will probably snack on the shrimp.
The sailfin will knock plants over as an adult, and may fight with the others until it is big enough to kill them.
The number of fish that are going to be living primarily on the bottom of the tank is really high.
Why get a fish if you plan on returning it later?
somefinnfishy
06-11-2003, 10:55 PM
she hit the nail on the head.If all compatibility issues are addressed you can fit LOTS of fish in that tank.
1st skip all those plecos as they are just as large as the common and will thrash you plants.
more bristle nose 1 or 2
replace the angels with some large plant friendly tetras or rainbows (congo's my choise)
Skip the shrimp and two of the clown loaches
Brockis Britski ? no clue what those are.
All those kului loaches will freak out some of the fish to much action thin them out.
The rams what kind?I sugest a pair of bolivions and a pair of blues.
Now things to add flying foxes,cardnal tetras, albino anciteris (dwarf albino bristle nose)
Originally posted by OrionGirl
That will be very overstocked at adult sizes.
The angels will probably fight, once the mature and pair off.
The clowns will probably snack on the shrimp.
The sailfin will knock plants over as an adult, and may fight with the others until it is big enough to kill them.
The number of fish that are going to be living primarily on the bottom of the tank is really high.
Why get a fish if you plan on returning it later?
Yes, I know it will be overstocked. I believe that with good filtration and tank maintenance that a tank can be overstocked as compared to the general rule of thumb.
Angels fighting? Don't know. Will check in to that.
I was a bit concerned about the shrimp actually. I thought that with the size of these shrimp that the clowns may have left them alone. Not a big problem really to forget the shrimp.
Does any one here have a large pleco in a planted tank? Are they really that bad on plants?
I have never heard of Sail Fins attacking other pleco's? Never mind killing them! Is this from experience?
Why is it a problem that a lot of the fish are primarily bottom dwellers?
I don't see any problem with keeping fish that grow large only until they reach a certain size. At least you can enjoy the fish at their smaller sizes. Plus you get to raise these fish again and again.
Many fish keepers want the larger fish too so there is not a problem with finding homes for larger fish, especially if they have been well looked after.
Originally posted by somefinnfishy
she hit the nail on the head.If all compatibility issues are addressed you can fit LOTS of fish in that tank.
1st skip all those plecos as they are just as large as the common and will thrash you plants.
more bristle nose 1 or 2
replace the angels with some large plant friendly tetras or rainbows (congo's my choise)
Skip the shrimp and two of the clown loaches
Brockis Britski ? no clue what those are.
All those kului loaches will freak out some of the fish to much action thin them out.
The rams what kind?I sugest a pair of bolivions and a pair of blues.
Now things to add flying foxes,cardnal tetras, albino anciteris (dwarf albino bristle nose)
I don't think any of the pleco's mentioned grow as large as the 'common' pleco besides the Sail Fin Pleco. Clown Pleco's grow to about 4 inches and the King TIger Pleco to about 5 inches?
Why skip two of the Clown Loaches? Quote from www.loaches.com :"Never own a loach unless you are willing to have 3 or more (5 is preferred)." (Referring to Clown Loaches)
Here's some info on the Brochis Britskii (http://mike-edwardes.members.beeb.net/Bbritskii.html)
somefinnfishy
06-12-2003, 10:30 PM
Most larger fish thrash your planted tank just by moving around.
I work at a big LFS and take in all sorts of big fish.(balas)
former owner probs (you)
Love the fish and hang on to them to long and MOST have deformations from under sized tanks,even if not your moving a large fish causes probs to your fish "friend". Then we get it improperly bagged so we have to dump it in the tank that was not ready for your fish instead of aclimating it then it beats its self silly because it dont like his new tankmates or them doing it for him/her.
new owner if it not dead or sick already
The macho guy 4 months in to his first 55 and want lots of big fish in his tank and he wants the fish to go with his other 10 big fish Two days later he walks in carrying a dead fish asking what happened?:mad:
I understand that with the Sail Fin being a large fish that it will uproot plants from time to time. I expect this. They can be re-planted though.
I certainly would not keep a fish in conditions that would cause it to become deformed! I don't think that keeping 2 Bala sharks in a 6 foot long fish tank until they are 6 inches long is keeping them in an under sized tank?
I would not take the large fish to an LFS. I am a member of the local aquarists society here and there are always plenty of members who would be grateful of larger specimens.
As for 'improperly' bagging large fish! I would not even consider 'bagging' large fish at all. If I move large fish then they are moved in an appropriate size fish 'box', certainly not a bag!
carpguy
06-12-2003, 11:54 PM
Originally posted by tbd
Yes, I know it will be overstocked. I believe that with good filtration and tank maintenance that a tank can be overstocked as compared to the general rule of thumb.
There's a lot to stocking levels that has nothing to do with filtration or water changes. Stress, compatabilty, territorial aggression, refuge areas, hormone levels.
Angels fighting? Don't know. Will check in to that.
They're cichlids. And they'll be stressed out cichlids.
Are they really that bad on plants?
They're kind of famously hard on plants. Especially 6 of them. And they'll be stressed out plecos. And they're kind of famously heavy waste producers that are going to tax your heavily taxed filtration.
Why is it a problem that a lot of the fish are primarily bottom dwellers?
Aesthetics aside, overcrowding will stress the fish. You can overcrowd a tank or you can overcrowd an area of the tank (or you can overcrowd several areas of the tank). A lot of these guys are territorial and without enough territory they're likely to beat the socks of each other and do a job on your plants while they're at it.
The presence of all those (scaleless) loaches will complicate medicating the tank during the disease outbreaks that the overstocking will encourage.
I don't see any problem with keeping fish that grow large only until they reach a certain size. At least you can enjoy the fish at their smaller sizes. Plus you get to raise these fish again and again.
Why not enjoy some smaller fish that you can raise throughout?
Somefinn detailed some of the problems associated with the widespread problem of too big fish in too small tanks. Lets assume you don't get attached and keep them too long. They'll be stressed, may be battered, may be stunted from the hormone levels in the tank (something filters don't handle), may be diseased from the combination of these stresses.
Personally I think you'll be much happier down the road if you pick one of the three tanks you're trying to squeeze in there and concentrate on that. Save the money and the grief.
OrionGirl
06-13-2003, 8:59 AM
For the record--yes, plecos fight, and yes they will kill each other. Check out the bottom dweller forum sometime--you'll see several people lose plecos because they house aggressive species together.
Competition for prime spacein the bottom of that tank is going to be fierce, and the sailfin is likely going to win. He'll get beat up, but he'll win.
I agree with carpguy 100%--the buildup of hormones can happen very quickly, and will stunt fish. The stress from being crowded will also cause problems. You won't be able to enjoy the fish displaying natural behavior--stressed fish don't behave normally.
thecowman
06-13-2003, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by tbd
Does any one here have a large pleco in a planted tank? Are they really that bad on plants?
I currently have a pl*co in my 35 gallon tank. It is sparsely planted, but I have experienced absolutely no difficulties with keeping plants that were caused by the pl*co. I would, however, recommend that you choose plants with thick leaves that would be less likely to be munched on by the fish. Plants with large, fern-like leaves are much less likely to become fish food than plants with smaller, delicate leaves.
somefinnfishy
06-14-2003, 1:06 AM
How big?
somefinnfishy
06-14-2003, 1:19 AM
BTW big fish dont always find a home
Most end up getting so big no one wants them or they outgrow any tank MADE my co-worker has a 37" Aba aba knife who needs a home bigger than its curent 265.
Same with the 30" redtailed cat at work or the (no kidding)36" commons perfect and heathy this woman brought in last week she brought her camera to take goodbye pics.She was kneeled down looking at her poor pair of fish.
Does your aquarium buddys have like 4-500 plywood tanks around to hold your rejects?
Toro Driver
06-14-2003, 10:25 AM
Two of my six angles have paird off, there tought neighbors for the younger for who are not mature enough to pair. Very territorial after they pair and start spawning. I will be getting seperate tank in the future for the spawning pair.
nolemite
06-14-2003, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by somefinnfishy
BTW big fish dont always find a home
Most end up getting so big no one wants them or they outgrow any tank MADE my co-worker has a 37" Aba aba knife who needs a home bigger than its curent 265.
Same with the 30" redtailed cat at work or the (no kidding)36" commons perfect and heathy this woman brought in last week she brought her camera to take goodbye pics.She was kneeled down looking at her poor pair of fish.
Does your aquarium buddys have like 4-500 plywood tanks around to hold your rejects?
Just curious...which of the fish on his list is going to need a 400-500g tank?
somefinnfishy
06-14-2003, 9:18 PM
the balas need bigger than a 6 foot tank when adult.
i guess I havent seen a adult red something something sailfin
Another of my coworkers has pics of his 16"sailfin not even adult yet.
My point of the 500g tank buddy was if everyone thought like you and him we all buy tank busters to pawn off on someone latter on or kill it before it ever has a chance.
I used to own balas and now after working at the only petshop around that take in fish never will I buy a baby bala for my amusement anything over 8"bala in a 72"is tourture and even if you arent the one doing it it will happen to the fish you are promoting the sale of everytime one is sold one suffers and will never live to see adulthood:(
Sorry so nasty but there are hundreds of fish that would love your home aquaria as their life long home.So why go torture another bala