Flourish and Flourish Excel

[OhNo123]

Are these products good and worth it? Should I get these in my moderately planted tank with some java fern, Java moss, amazon swords? I also have inverts... so are these chemicals bad for them?

[maxthedog123]

Disclaimer - I know nothing about inverts.

I have had good luck with Flourish and Excel. In fact, I think they help quite a bit. If you are going to use them, expecially Excel, then do yourself a favor and buy a big jug online. 250ml is $9.99 at the LFS but 2L (2000ml) is $25.

I have never done the dry fert thing. I am sure it's cheaper and more exeact, but I've been lazy so far and have just used the Flourish products.

How big is you tank & what are you lights. If you haven't already read the boards about lighting and CO2 then check those out. Lights (1st) and CO2 (2nd depending on plants) are probably even more important than fertilizer.

[BradE]

Are these products good and worth it? Should I get these in my moderately planted tank with some java fern, Java moss, amazon swords? I also have inverts... so are these chemicals bad for them?

I use the complete Flourish line (along with proper lighting and pressurized CO2), and I can honestly say the Flourish products are worth it.

But like maxthedog123 said, you're better off to buy the 2 liter jug instead of the tiny bottles.

[Quartermain]

Hi OhNo! In my experience Flourish products are perfectly safe for all aquarium fauna including inverts. Flourish Excel however contains a mild algeacide that can be harmful to some plants if overdosed. Those include Hornwort, Anacharis and probably also Cabomba and Foxtail (Myrio). Basically fine-leaved plants may be affected. I ultimately switched to dry ferts and CO2 just for the sheer cost of dosing Seachem products every week but you sure can't beat them for the quality and convenience. I recommend Seachem completely!

[mellowvision]

I just started using flourish excel and prime today, in an effort to regain control of my spiralling out of control 10 gallon. I'll let you know how it goes.

[Slappy*McFish]

I'm using both products in my 10g and I've always had good results with both.
I really only recommend using Excel in lowlight setups. High light systems would do much better with CO2 injection. But Excel could be used with CO2 as a supplement...especially since it does seem to have an impact on algae growth.

[mellowvision]

yeah, I have diy co2.. the excel is an interim effort to kill the thread/hair algae that sprung up in the last week. the tank was doing really well and then I borked it... it went like this:

planted it, got the cycle going, and lightly stocked with 2 cherry barbs
started up the co2 and 40w of light on a 10 hour schedule
added an amano shrimp and oto when the cycle was stable
cherry barbs had 2 babies
went on vacation for 4 days
returned to green water like I've never seen.
killed co2 and shortened light. did massive water change. did research...
tried a 3 day blackout. the condensation nearly blacked out my whole building! lol. I was close to a problem. the blackout didn't work.
bought a cheap UV sterilizer and blasted the tank for 3 days. this cleared the greenwater.
waited a week to reintroduce the co2 and ferts... BAD MOVE
started seeing my micro swords getting clumpy and dirty with some minor brown algae... decided to do a little pruning. in the process ended up removing about 20 plantlets. they were all over the place. a lot of new growths. I think this was too much to remove at once... then next day...
started seeing thread algae. this was a week and a half ago.
about 3 days ago, changed the light cycle to 5 on 2 off 5 on.
as of yesterday, the hair was getting pretty bad, enough to catch amanos... kept seeing them get tangled and jump out of it....

so I did some more research and decided to stop using the amquel conditioner and kent's ferts, and get some prime and excel. we'll see how it goes. I think in the long run, I need to either reduce the 40w of light on the 10 gallon, or figure out what fert is missing and dose that... but I don't know what I'm doing. my biggest errors were letting the co2 die on vacation, waiting to turn it back on after the blackout, and removing all the plantlets last week.

[Slappy*McFish]

Sounds like a nightmare. I've been there...lol. That's why I stay with low light setups now. The high light systems look incredible, but can be a PITA at times. I've rectified a lot of algae problems by introducing large clumps of water sprite to the tank after a series of 50% water changes and reintroduction of ferts. Proper co2 levels play a huge role, as well. The Excel should definitely help.

[mellowvision]

yeah. by comparison, I set up a tank next to it that I've used almost no ferts on, that has 2 screw in 15 watt bulbs. it's a 15 gallon tank, filled to the 10 gallon point... but it has an island hanging at water level in one corner. it blocks a ton of light.... I planted the tank entirely with dwarf sag from another tank, that was already showing signs of bba... didn't even rinse it, was just rushing to plant it.... that was a couple of weeks ago. there isn't a spec of algae in the tank that I can see... it's amazing. low light is really the way to go. I don't need no stinking HC carpet!!!!

[Slappy*McFish]

I think a lot of peeps also see outbreaks of algae due to adding too many root tabs to the substrate too soon. It's a good idea to allow the root feeders to develop their roots first, then add the tabs.

[mellowvision]

here's a side by side comparison...

[mellowvision]

oh, and sorry to Ohno for hijakcing the thread! :)

[Slappy*McFish]

lol...as long as it's educational! Yeah, that high light tank needs some nutrient absorbing stem or floating plants in there. Not enough plants to out-compete the algae. Float some water sprite in there and remove it a little at a time as the algae starts to disappear. Maybe this will give the grass some time to develop without getting choked by algae.

Cool tanks, btw.

[OhNo123]

Mellow I like your 10 gallon light hood. Where did you get it and how much was it?

Well my tank is a 10 gallon with no co2 and 15 watt bulbs. I know, low light. So I should get Flourish Excel?

[Slappy*McFish]

yes, get some excel. :)

[OhNo123]

Guess I will, if it doesn't harm inverts. But people said excel doesn't harm inverts anyway.

Also what is water sprite?

[mellowvision]

yeah, try the excel. it should help with carbon and algae...

the light hood is a current usa 20" 40w fixture with a daylight bulb. the fixture is awesome. I love it. it's well made and looks great. it was about 60 bucks online. I think it's too much light though, and may put some screen or stripes of tape over the lense to dim it... I don't think I can throw a lower wattage bulb in without changing the ballast.

there's actually a ton of duckweed floating... and 2 8" strands of pennywort(Ithink) that I keep over the co2 ladder to trap bubbles. I recently removed about a 4" circle of duckweed from the water to throw in the tank to the left. I started the 10g with 1 (one) piece of duckweed. it's amazing stuff. watersprite would be good. I haven't seen it locally... at least by that name. saw some stuff today that looked like it, but I forget what they were calling it.

the cabomba was supposed to be my fast grower... and it does grow fast, but I hate it. a little tid bit that I realized recently, that is reducing my hatred: it grows new plants under the gravel from the roots... everyone says chop and stick, remove the base... but I've been trying chop at the gravel and wait. lol. it also supposedly does well in brackish water! so we'll see how it fares in the 15 on the left... as it's going to start being brackish next week. UNFORTUNATELY, i've read that excel is hard on cabomba... only time will tell.

my advice to you Ohno: stick with the low light. your growth will be slower, but your plants will be lush and your tank will have much less chance of algae.

[OhNo123]

Thanks mellow. Thats an expensive hood you have there. Is your co2 bought or made?

1 piece of duckweed. wow. Do you have some you want to give away maybe?

[mellowvision]

currently, the co2 on that tank is a hagen bubble ladder with a european soda bottle, larger than 1l, smaller than 2l... as the generator and a 16oz seltaer bottle as gas seperator. the gas seperator is KEY. helps counting bubbles and keeps yeast out of the tank. the yeast was a major problem when I started.

I also have 2 hagen co2 cannisters that are on other tanks. I like them a lot. honestly, I think the hagen system is perfect to start with. it's cheap, works well, and is easy to set up.

yeah, the hood was expensive. somehow I let myself be convinced that I needed 40 watts. I was so wrong. there was a cool coralife fixture I liked too, but it was 30w... but way cheaper. should have done that... or done what I did on the tank on the right... 2 $10 clip lamps, and a 3 pack of GE daylight 15watt pcs... total: $27 dollars.... and plenty of light for what I want. eventually, I plan to hang a shelf over the tanks, and let the lights hang from the shelf. this will clean things up a lot.

as for duckweed... shipping it would hardly be worth it! almost every plant I've had shipped over the last 3 weeks has come in fully cooked... except the lemon bacopa... which is AWESOME. but yeah, almost every fish store will have duckweed somewhere in some tank. ask them for 1 piece. it'll be worth the laugh. I'd never pay for it.... and come to think of it, haven't yet. the one piece I used in the 10 gallon was from my 20g. the 20 gallon generates probably 6-8" of duckweed a month. I got duckweed in that tank mixed in with some other plants... as did my java moss. free.

[reybie]

Convert those lights to pendants :), that would look cool.

[OhNo123]

I don't think any of my LFS sells duckweed or has them. I want duckweed!