Ammonia and a new tank

[nynikki]

Hello all,

I have read the sticky on starting up a new tank, Re: Fish in or fish out cycling and I guess now I have more question.

This all started because one day, about 2 weeks ago, I was in Petsmart buying some crickets for my salamander and spotted the Betta fish. After having many questions, I decided to get a 30 gallon tank, that I would like to plant. So now tank, substrate, and filter are churning away. I ordered my plants online, they will be here in about a week and I was waiting for the cloud to settle down in the tank before adding my 1 Betta, and 1 Mystery snail. - Yes... I know it is overkill (30g 1 Betta, hahaha), but after reading the fish in cycling, this sounds like it may not be a bad way to start.

What came to mind is a question of ammonia. The 30g tank seems to have come about because of ammonia. Every week, I have to clean out the small, unfiltered bowl because ammonia is on the rise. What do I do when ammonia spikes in my 30g? Wait it out? Can I use some of the bowl water in the tank? Or perhaps just add the plant that is in the bowl now to the tank? I guess my confusion is coming from the idea that in order to eliminate ammonia, I need to start with some? Am I reading that correctly?

Thanks again for all your helpful advice, I do appreciate knowing that there are kind people out there willing to help.

Hope you're having a great Sunday.

Nikki

[Rbishop]

Are you doing a fishless cycle on the 30?

[DarkSoul]

once your tank is cycled, you should never have an ammonia spike, unless there is a problem.

it takes roughly around 1 month for your tank to be cycled, and have the bacterial colony established enough to break down the ammonia into nitrItes, and the nitrItes into nitrAtes.

[nynikki]

I was planning to put the Betta and Snail in since I have to clean out the bowl today anyway. Ammonia is between 1-2 after only a week.

[nynikki]

I guess my real goal is to get the Betta and snail out of the filter less unhealthy environment as quickly as possible. What would you suggest?

[jm1212]

ocne the plants arrive they should help with some of the problem. they eat up ammoina, nitrites, nitrates etc.

change the water every day on the betta bowl if you have to.

[Becca3711]

I think her question is reguarding a fishy cycle. If so, go ahead and get started. Wait for your ammonia to build up, with only a betta and a snail in a 30, it may be awhile. Once your AMM builds up to over 0.25 do a partial water change. Read the thread on the nitrogen cycle/cycling a tank, that will tell you what to do in details.

[wataugachicken]

put the betta into the 30g TODAY! 30g of water diluting the betta's waste is a lot better than just the water in the little bowl. even if you have to do water changes on the 30g, there is a lot more room for ammonia to dissapate and it won't build up nearly as quickly.

if you have a choice between keeping your fish in two different uncycled containers, ALWAYS choose the bigger one. more water=more dilution=healthier fish.

[davexstumpe]

i'd suggest doing a fishless cycle in the 30 gallon, and keep the betta in the bowl until its done, and whenever the ammonia spikes to over .25 do a water change which should be easy considering its a bowl... btw, how big is the bowl he is in?

[wataugachicken]

why would you keep the betta in an unfiltered, probably unheated bowl when it could be put into a bigger tank 30 or 60 times larger than what it is in now, have very little ammonia, and not have to worry about toxic spikes killing or damaging the betta? more water is always better, uncycled or not.

[davexstumpe]

why would you keep the betta in an unfiltered, probably unheated bowl when it could be put into a bigger tank 30 or 60 times larger than what it is in now, have very little ammonia, and not have to worry about toxic spikes killing or damaging the betta? more water is always better, uncycled or not.

water changes for a bowl are a lot easier than a 30 gallon when the ammonia starts to spike. thats why i said water changes whenever the ammo reached .25

its a matter of opinion, but thats whay i would do.

[wataugachicken]

easier for us, but not easier for the fish. . . .

[davexstumpe]

easier for us, but not easier for the fish. . . .

so you don't think the ammonia will spike in the 30 gallon?

[wataugachicken]

with one betta? it might. . . after 5 days or a week. if it is tested daily and caught before it gets too high (barely at .25) you don't have to worry about a spike. honestly, there's a good chance that the OP might just have a silent cycle. i don't believe that one betta is enough of a bioload in a 30g tank to really cause a problem. a regular maintenance routine of weekly water changes with a gravel vac should be more than enough to get through the cycle with very minimal readings.

[silentskream]

not if the OP is trying to cycle it first (which i assume since they said they had read the thread)

apparently the only reason for not putting the betta in, is that the water is cloudy.

my suggestion is to make sure the temp is safe, make sure the water has been dechlorinated and put the betta and snail in. if no other fish are added, the ammonia will probably not "spike" it may creep up very slowly.. but i doubt that such a small bioload in such a relatively large tank, especially when full of plants, would cause any problems... and would not likely need a water change for a week if not longer. in my opinion, that makes it easier on both us and the fish.
That being said, i STRONGLY suggest testing the water daily, just in case.

[Star_Rider]

nice catch JM

what plants did you order? do you have sufficient light for the plants?

okay, now on to cycling.

part of it will depend on the plants..some are nutrient hogs and will soak up ammonia..you may never see it. Elodea is one of those..a nitrogen sponge so to speak.
add to the fact you will have a lightly stocked tank.
we really need to know this to give you our best educated guess ;)

[Cfortunato]

I agree with Wataugha. Put the betta in the big tank. There is no sense in fishless cycling if you ALREADY have a fish in a bowl that will never cycle. He will have considerable relief from the VERY high ammonia that comes in a bowl. Then, water change when the ammonia gets a bit high - somebody said .25,and that sounds abut right - and use Prime when changing the water.

Cycling the tank with the betta and the snail will take time, but it will get there.

[spirals]

my vote goes towards putting the betta in the big tank (as long as there isn't a high ammonia amount from being in the cycle). I've never had personal xp with a big tank (my largest is 10g) but i'd imagine that the betta wouldn't be enough to shoot the ammonia so high in the 30g that it would be unmanagable.

and btw, kudos to you for putting him in such a big tank, my bettas are so jealous and so am i. the fish will definitely own the whole tank and appreciate all the space! every upgrade my fish has gotten seems so little after watching them explore their new space (even though they have to stop to "rest" initially) and i could totally see one betta just swimming about to his hearts content.

[nynikki]

The bowl is about a gallon size. But considering the goal of the 30g was to get the Betta out into something more healthy, I decided to go with the fish in cycle. I knew it would take forever with just the Betta and snail to start the cycle, so I added 3 Swordtails and 2 Platys. The plants are all in now too. Everyone is happy and healthy and I'll just have to keep testing. Thanks for the advice everyone.

On a side note... this is the first time I have ever seen a Betta in a big tank with other fish. The first day he kept chasing one of the Platys around with his gills (?) open and displaying his aggression. But he can't keep up with the Platy, and I think he's starting to get used to his new tank mates.