32G tank, cycling??

[yashinfan]

I have a used tank with an under-gravel filter. It is about 16 years old (at least!) but hasn't been used for 13. I set it up today and it has been bleached and rinsed twice. I put it new gravel which was also cleaned. My question is, how long should I leave the filter running for before I add my fish? I am going to add Zebra Danios. My tank is 32 gallons, so how many can I add the first time? If no one replies then I am adding 10 danios (males & females) in a tank that has run for approx. 5 days. Please give me your advice! thanks!

[yashinfan]

I asked an expert at my local aquarium store and he recommended 2-3 days, so I guess that is what I'll do!

[TKOS]

Make sure to buy some test kits, especially ammonia and nitrite. If there are any spikes in these levels do some water changes to get them back to zero.

Ideally you will want to do a fishless cycle using pure ammonia which you can read about in the sticky at the top of the newbie forum.

[goldfish freak]

No, don't add 10 danios in all at once, it will surely cause an ammonia and nitrite spike in a newly set up tank. Either do a fishless cycle and add all the danios in at once after it is done, or add one two danios per week to give the bacteria time develop and process the ammonia and nitrite from the fish. I would suggest that that you do a fishless cycle, it would be less stress on the fish and on you as well. To give you an idea, I added a single 5" heavy bodied fancy gold fish to my new 120 gallon tank and this single fish gave my water a reading of 2ppm of nitrite, this is a fairly high an harmful level of nitrite. I was battling high nitrite in this tank for weeks, and had to do large daily water changes to bring it down to a safe level. Don't, I repeat DON'T add all those fish in your tank at once. By the way the "expert" of yours is no expert at all if he is going to give that type of advice.

[yashinfan]

The expert told me to add some chemicals to add good bacteria but instead he agreed it would be okay if I added some water from my boyfriend's tank where his fish have been living happily for over a year. Would this be okay to leave in for a couple of days before the fish are added?

[goldfish freak]

No it would not be okay to do that. Any chemical on the market that is supposed to add beneficial bacteria to you tank is considered by nearly every knowledgeable fishkeeper to be ineffective. With BioSpira being the possible exception, and this product is not yet available in Canada. Adding water from an established tank will have very little to no effect towards speeding up the cycling of the tank. What you could do to significantly speed up the cycle of your tank would be to take a good portion of the media from the filter in your boyfriends tank(if it is not an undergravel filter as well) or a good portion of his gravel if it is, and add it to your own tank. Even doing this you might still encounter a bit of a spike in ammonia and nitrite, but it would cycle your tank alot faster than if you did not do this. I would still suggest against adding 10 danios at once, that is unless he has alot of fish or the fish are large in his tank. In this instance there might be enough bacteria on the filter media or the gravel to support all 10 fish in your tank.

[yashinfan]

Thanks so much for the advice but his filter is deisgned so the media is not able to be taken out, but I will see about the gravel. So you're still against adding 10 danios? Hmmm... I'm only scared because I don't want to have a healthy couple put in first and then when I add more I have to risk that they have disease, as you know the pet stores are not always known for their ideal conditions. I don't have an isolation tank at the moment as I was going to buy my next tank as a breeding tank a couple of weeks after my danios had settled in. Is there any way of assuring good danio health without isolating them?

[goldfish freak]

You are welcome. I am certain that adding 10 danios to a new 32 gallon tank will cause a significant spike in ammonia and nitrite, that is unless the danios are very small(1" or less in total length) and you feed lightly. If this is the case then you might be okay. I would still test the ammonia and nitrite daily. You are right to worry about the health of the fish. I think since you don't have an isolation tank that your best bet would be to do a fishless cycle on your 32 gallon tank, that way you could add all the fish in at once. The fishless cycle would take between 2-6 weeks to complete. If you do not want to do this than the only other choice you have is to monitor the ammonia and nitrite daily and do enough water changes to keep them at a safe level. Alot more work this way.

[yashinfan]

I've read up on this "fishless cycle" and it seems like a horrible amount of work as well! So I'll tell you my plan and please give me your input: I set up my tank today (Day 1) and am running the filter to lower the pH levels in the water. Tomorrow (day 2) I am adding some of my b/f's water and gravel into my tank. After this has settled (~ 1 hour??) I will do another pH test and an ammonia test. If this is all clear (pH close to 7.2 and ammonia close to 0) I will wait another day (day 3) to go buy some danios. If not then I will wait until Thursday (day 6) and then I will test the pH and ammonia levels again. If the pH isn't normal now then I will have to purchase something from the shop and will then wait the appropriate number of days for it to work. If the ammonia level is not safe by day 6 then I will take more from my b/f's tank and do a lot of water changes until all is well. Would water from my pond, which is teeming with goldfish life, help the cycle at all?? I appreciate your input so much! :> (PS- the danios are VERY small, maybe 1.5" at most!!)

[goldfish freak]

Okay, if I understand you correctly you want a pH of about 7.2. What is the pH of your water straight out of the tap? In most cases it is not necessary to alter pH, unless you are dealing with very sensitive fish. Danios are quite hardy and will not mind a pH level outside of their ideal. Besides I bet your local fish store does not bother to alter pH in their tanks. The pH in tap water will settle to the level it is going to be at in a day if you have the filter running. Ammonia will not form in the water without fish, so there is no need to test for it. Fishless cycling will not be as much work as having to change a large portion of the water once or twice a day, everyday for weeks. I would suggest that if you really do not want to do a fishless that your best course of action would be to: Fill your tank up with dechlorinated water, place your own gravel in the tank. Let the filter run for a day, grab a good portion of your boyfriend's gravel(skim from the top) a few of the plants and decorations(if he has any), spread the borrowed gravel on top of your own. Add a couple of air stones, let it run for a couple of hours, add the danios. Then test the water daily for ammonia and nitrite and change water as often as needed to bring both ammonia and nitrite to zero or close to it. You might have to do alot of water changing. Make sure you ask what pH the local fish store is keeping the danios at. If it lower than your water you will not have a problem adding the fish, if it is higher you will need to increase your pH. Good luck.

[yashinfan]

The pH of my tapwater was between 8 and 8.5, which surprised me quite a bit. I was told it would settle to around 7 if I left it alone for a couple of days. I added dechlorinator already to the tank. I'm going to take some of his gravel and skim off the top, I hope that does something. The ammonia level in his tank is 0, so I don't see how testing my tank with no fish in it and having his gravel in my tank would raise the ammonia level. My dad is also not in favour of this fishless cycling so I guess it'll have to be the old-fashioned way. I guess it is a good thing that I am starting with a hardy fish. I've decided that I'll heed to your advice and start with four fish- 2 of each sex. I guess you'll just have to wish me luck and I'll tell you what happens as soon as the Danios are in place :) Thanks for all of your help :D

[TKOS]

Make sure to add the gravel from the established tank near the time you will be adding the fish. This is because the "good" bacteria that is on the gravel needs a source of food to stay alive. Without this source of food (the waste from the fish) they will all die off rather quickly and it will be the same as not having added it.

[goldfish freak]

You are welcome!:) Just make sure that you test the water for ammonia and nitrite everyday after you add the fish and change enough water to keep the levels low. Good luck, and post again if you have any more questions.

[yashinfan]

I tested my pH this morning and it was a little over 7, probably 7.2. My water temperature is a perfect 24 degrees celcius, I don't do farenheit :P So this seems like ideal conditions for my danios so far. Tomorrow (day 3) I'm going to purchase 4 danios and then test the ammonia levels. If they get too high then I will do water changes of about 25% per day. Do you think that using water from my pond where my goldfish live would help the tank? I'm going to use some of my b/f's gravel tomorrow about an hour before I put the fish in. I'm so nervous!!

[goldfish freak]

Putting water from you goldfish pond will add little to no benefit to your new set up. If fact it might do harm since you are going to be adding gravel from your boyfriends tank. Mixing water and gravel from two different sources is not a good idea since it might result harmful bacteria or parasites.

[yashinfan]

Well then it's a great thing you told me! When I set my goldfish tank up in October what we usually do is fill the tank with water from their pond, but I guess that would make sense because they were already exposed to everything while they resided there. Do you have any advice on when I should expect the fish to be ready to breed?? They are at least 1" already in the store. I assume it would take about a week for them to get over the shock completely.

[goldfish freak]

Sorry I have no idea as to what size and age a danio needs to be to breed. One thing I do know is that they will need to acclimate to your tank before they do.

[goldfish freak]

I have another idea to help cycle your tank. Are you opposed to buying a small internal filter, or a small power filter? If not then you could place this filter on your boyfriend's tank and leave it running for a week or two to collect a decent amount of good bacteria, then tranfer it to your own tank. This will greatly aid your cycle.

[yashinfan]

If only you had told me this a week ago!! I think I will use that idea for the next tank I set up, though. That's such a good idea. I'm going to post a new thread now about a deal I've been offered about tanks, please tell me if this is a good investment (will be in general forum)

[goldfish freak]

Ya, too bad eh? Although I would suggest that you still put the filter on you boyfriend's tank for this tank, if you have an extra one lying around just in case you run into problems with the cycle. It could realy help you out, since your new tank might possibly take weeks to cycle. Better safe than sorry. It's an idea to consider. Which ever way you go I wish you the best.

[yashinfan]

I guess I'm out of luck as my filter is an under-gravel and his is not :'( I tried, I did, I did. Guess I'll just have to hope for the best. Do you think it is neccessary to ask the people at the store what their pH is? I assume that this wouldn't actually do much because obviously there's would be around the same but I have heard some people saying this takes the stress off of them. What I was planning to do was to bring the fish home in the bag, let the bag sit open in the water for 20-30 minutes to make sure the temp is the same, then put a little bit of my tank's water into their's to make sure they have a chance to adjust to pH or anything else, then I'm going to add them and their water into my tank. Does this sound like a good method?

[goldfish freak]

If your local fish store is in the same area as where you live than the pH of their water will most likely be the same if not lower than yours. It is still best to ask, since if the water that the danios are in is of a higher pH than your water then placing them in your water will stress them out quite a bit. Placing a fish from a higher pH to a lower pH is harmful especially if there is a large difference. Having the local fish store test the pH should not be a big deal for them, and neither is raising yours. All you will need to raise your pH if necessary would be to add a little baking soda to your water. Still do that with your fish in the bag, but adjusting your pH in your tank water will be easy and less stressfull for your fish.

[yashinfan]

How much of a difference should I care about?? My pH strips only tell me if the difference is .5 or greater. Like, I know mine is in the range of 7.0 to 7.5 but not EXACTLY where it is. So I know that 2 whole points is a huge difference (between tap water and dechlorinated water that has been sitting for a day), but that's about it!

[goldfish freak]

A difference of .5 is not really worth worrying about unless you have very sensitive species, if it is greater than this than yes.

[yashinfan]

Alright so it says that the optimal pH for danios is 7.0 - 7.5, so then I shouldn't worry about their pH because that's what they would have to have for them to live and mine is between that mark as well. Hurray! One less problem avoided! :> I'm so excited for tomorrow to have my little fish :> because of your advice I'm only getting 4, and the next 6 will be purchased on Thursday. Do you think that's enough time between them for the tank to be inhabitable for 10?

[goldfish freak]

The optimal pH for danios may be 7.0- 7.5 but that does not necessarly mean that the local fish shop will have their pH at that level, local fish shops do lot of things that are not best for their fish. I don't want to rain on your parade but I think you should really ask them the pH of the water in which they keep the danios in(best done a day or less before you get them), for the sake of your fish. As I mentioned it is a very simple thing to raise your the pH in your water. Three days would most likely not be enough time for your tank to establish enough good bacteria to support 6 more danios. It might not be enough time to safely support the 4 you are going to put in. Test the water daily to see if you are reading zero for both ammonia and nitrite, then you can add more fish. I would suggest waiting a week or two before adding the rest of the danios.

[yashinfan]

Alright! Consider that done, you're my fish expert now, after all! I appreciate your advice so much and will keep you posted with what's happening with my danios. I think I will be getting them tomorrow around 5PM. If you're really good, I'll send you some pictures :D lol! Thanks, again. (Ps- be proud we posted over 25 times !!)

[goldfish freak]

LOL!:D You are welcome. I am glad that I could help:) Yes, please let me know how your danios are doing. Maybe I can be of some help again. Heh Heh, 25 times eh? We better cut it out or people will start to get ideas:p LOL!

[CHINABOY1021]

goldfish freak is a great help!

[goldfish freak]

Thanks for the compliment ChinaBoy :) .