help, sick ram again, tired of this

L

loki993

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Jun 11, 2007
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ok we lost the gold ram 2 days ago, now the same thing is happening with the GBR, he is breathing hard and had what appear to be leisions around his left gill and on his side, also he has white growths on his right side and one on his bottom near his tail.
water params::
am:0
nitrites:0
nitrates:a little below 40, trying to get this under control
gh:180
ph:somewhere between 6.5 and 7.0

I have pics this time, although there now very good, trying to shoot moving fish with no flash is tough, the last one is really bad, but tis the only one I could get of that side that wasnt totally blured, it dosnt look that bad IRL, but still pretty bad, here they are:

fish1.jpg


fish2.jpg


fish3.jpg


I know there not good but maybe they will help, Im afraid he will not make it, the gold died within 12 hours, but I really would like to know what going on with these fish, no other fish in the tank seem to be affected and both rams came from the same place. they both seemed to acclimate fine and we acting very normal until the got sick.
 
Big water changes, lower your hardness, and lower the pH. Both are probably problems. What is the temp at? Get it to 82F
 
tank runs about 80 degrees. how do I go about lowering the hardness?? from what ive seen is that its kinda hard to do. when you say big what do you mean??? 50 percent 75??? will the temp shift affect the other fish??

also still trying to get the water change thing down so to speak, doing 50 or 75 percent, does it all have to be done all at once, there wouldn't be much water for the fish to swim in. or could it be done in stages, say remove 20 gal, fill, wait a few minutes, remove 10 gal and replace, can it be done that way also??

high hardness and high ph can cause the growths and lesions?
 
The growths may be internal parasites. Raise the temp to like 83F for a couple days, and try to treat with some meds, particularlly Metronidazole.

The water changes and lowering pH and Hardness are just helpful with the rams in general. The high hardness and higher pH will definately lead it to stress and bad health in the long run (if this fish wasn't locally bred for a couple generations for it to be acclimated to your water chemistry, which most GBR arent). The water changes to lower the Nirates, which are pretty high. I keep mine under 5ppm, but I'm obsessive. 10ppm would be a better start. And when I say big, I mean 75%. You can do the segmented water changes (every 10 minutes untl 50-75% or whatever), I just prefer to do mine at once, since it's easier for me.

Try buying some blackwater extract, or filtering your water over some peat moss. It'll lower pH and hardness. Also, most LFS offer free (or very cheap) RO/DI water. Mix 50/50 with your tap, and it'll lower your hardness, while the tap will put the needed minerals back into the water.
 
I really think there may be a parasite problem because this is almost the exact way we lost the golden one also and they both came from the same store. been trying to get the nitrates down to no avail for a week or so now, I havent dont a really large change until last night, about 45 percent, before I was running about 20 percent. so ive been working to get the parameters down. I too would like to get the nitrates down below 10ppm. we just fed him and he ate so thats good, Ill check on the meds tomorrow and check for the RO water from the LFS tomorrow, it would probably help get the parameters down quick and under control and then I can concentrate on maintaining them.
 
The growths may be internal parasites. Raise the temp to like 83F for a couple days, and try to treat with some meds, particularlly Metronidazole.
Click to expand...

will this be ok for the other fish as well, I cant really QT the little guy, have no QT tank, unless I put him in a bucket with a bubbler.
 
Well it should be fine, but it's one way or the other, really. Either risk it, or done.
 
the only practical way of getting nitrates down is by doing water changes. with my german blues i do a 50% water change when the nitrates get to 15, or once a week, whichever happens first. (i have a planted tank so it takesa little while to get this high) since your tank doesn't seem to be planted, my guess is that you should probably do a 50% water change twice a week.


to get the water softer and acidic (decrease hardness and PH) put driftwood in the tank and/or peat in the filter. drsfosterandsmith.com has peat pellets that you can put into the filter media.. they may have real driftwood too, i can't remember. (dont get grape vine!)
a good place to get some driftwood that was posted on here several weeks ago is http://manzanita.com/stickssample.htm if you call them and tell them you need it for an aquarium, they can help you figure out what to get according to the size of your tank.

drsfosterandsmith also sells a thing called a "water softener pillow" It works well, is reusable, and is good to have as a backup for the peat and driftwood.

rams are very sensitive to diminishing water quality. and their immune system begins to fail. if they have parasites, the parasites will begin to take over because of the failing immune system. I think this is what you're seeing.. so keep the water clean, add some driftwood and/or peat and medicate for parasites as instructed above
 
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