Black Hair Algae and no progress

[Turbo]

Im back again. Earlier I posted a thread about black hair algae and tried some of your advice. Bought platies and they wont eat it. Just finished a five day black out and the algae looks the same. I just replaced all my lights and have 50/50 with two watts per gallon. Im about to pull the plants out and try the bleach bath but thought I would run this through you one last time before my tank goes plantless. Any further advice would be appreciated. Thankx.

[Skittyfish]

Here's what I did. (you probably did this too)

I scrubbed everything that could be taken out and scrubbed..i.e intake and spray bar, heaters, and large rocks.

I trimmed off any leaves with algae on them, turned over the top bit of gravel, about a 1/4 inch of depth.

Did 50 % water change, took the lights off the tank, completely covered it with thick black plastic garbage bags. After 3 days, I did another 50% water change, covered it back up, and on day five I removed plastic, did my water change, added my ferts, upped my CO2 put my lights back on (definately on a timer, only 9 hours a day).

I still occasionally have a bit break out, but nowhere as bad as it was. It can usually be corrected with a water change and pruning.

Good luck, its awful to beat and ugly to look at.

[wetmanNY]

The Clorox dip works for Anubias and Echinodorus. Less well for softer-leaved plants, IMHE.

It comes-- but it goes. You have to keep watchful and scrape and siphon away every bit that appears anywhere. That "harmless" tuft on the filter intake, or the tuft on the siliconed corner that's invisible so isn't a "problem"......

True Siamese Algae-Eaters really do keep ahead of it, but they don't eat the old BBA, just the tender new growth. So you have to remove the strongly-attached basal growth, even if it means sacrificing a leaf here and there.

[djlen]

As Skitty says, a total scrubbing of everything inanimate that can be removed. Use beach to get all filter parts, heater etc. completely clean. You can use 50/50 bleach/water on in-animates as long as you make sure you 'de-bleach' them afterward.
Prune all the BBA you can find off the plants or better yet, give plants a bleach dip in 19:1 solution water/bleach(try not to let the roots get into the solution), rinse well then let them sit in a tub of fresh water treated with double the amount of "Tap Water Conditioner" to make sure you've removed all bleach. Back into another tub of fresh water to rinse again. While they're in that final rinse, do a good gravel vac of substrate. You don't want to suck all the mulm out of the substrate, but 1/4 - 1/3" of the surface is good. Also, while the tank is relatively empty, check the walls of the tank for any residual BBA in corners and scrub it out. Siphon 50-75% of the water off and refill.
I know nothing about your tank, but upping the CO2 level to 25-30ppm is a big help and get on a fertilization program that will enable the plants to out compete the BBA for nutrients.
If you look closely you will probably see that the BBA is more prevalent on the older leaves that are either dying or browning.
It doesn't usually gravitate toward the new, healthy growth. That's why you want all your plants to be at their maximum growth rate.
I also used the blackout on my tank, but Tom Barr says a blackout isn't really necessary on BBA.
Hope this works for you......let us know.
Len

[cpr4cpu]

I finally got sick and tired of the stuff and ripped out all my flourite and went with small gravel and a bottom layer of laterite. As long as the laterite is undisturbed (out of the water column) I can control algae growth, even with keeping my phosphates at 2.0ppm. I dose fertilizers every other day, even trace elements. Bottom line, I blame the substrate for leeching way too much iron in the water column...

I also have CO2 and fertilize according to Tom Barr's recommended levels (adding ferts every other day)

[WolfPup522]

I have the same problem with this algae on some of plants. I would like to get something that would eat it, but I'm worried that a Chinese algae eater, etc. would harm my 3 otos. Is this a valid concern?

[cpr4cpu]

I've never had any luck with CAE's and hair algae, but I recently added three Flag Fish (Florida Flagfish, American Flag Fish, etc.) and they cleaned all the hair algae off everything. Now I can't keep it growing fast enough for them :-)

I have not had much luck with the algae eaters eating much algae once they get to be about 3 inches in length (1 year old?).
I have never seen ottos touch the hair algae unless there was almost noting else to eat in the tank.

I was sceptical about the flagfish, but now I wish I had more hair algae because they are pretty cool fish and so far a nice addition to the community tank.

[WolfPup522]

Thanks for your suggestion! I just "googled" flag fish, since I'd never seen them before, and they seem to be a very possible solution (not to mention that I really like the way they look). Your right about the ottos - they won't go near the hair algae.

If I can find some flag fish to bring home, I'll let you know how it goes.

[cpr4cpu]

On the east coast you should be able to find them, or ask your LFS to order them for you. They should run about $5 to $6 each. I paid $8 each for mine because I like my LFS and pay through the nose to keep them in business :-) and if you read this Mike, you know I'm talking about you!
I am now growing hair algae on giant vals in a 10 gallon tank and adding the infested plants to the big tank just to watch the flagfish tear it up. The 10 is a dedicated tank that is heavy in iron and phosphates but not much in the way of CO2 so the algae grows fast. I have one of those cheapo Wally world 10 gallon incandescent light hoods and replaced the bulb with a 75 watt sprial compact fluorescent. So far 8 weeks on a timer for 14 hours and the bulb is still working (a Daytime Compact Fluorescent from Home Depot for $8) -- even though the package says not to use a timer, and I don't have water splashing I am fine so far.

Now it's easy to move the plants from tank to tank now as the algae is cleaned off, and the FFF love it. Now if I could just automate the process so I could sit and drink a beer and watch the fish for a change :-)

[WolfPup522]

Thanks for the advice. I'll check with the LFS and see if they can get them in for me.

Just out of curiosity, do you have males, females or a combination. I ask because I read that flagfish are very easy to breed and the males aggresively guard the eggs. Just wanted to see if you've had to deal with that yet.

[cpr4cpu]

two females and one male.
I have a 125 gallon tank, and they hang out in the middle of a huge mass of hornwort in the back of the tank. I have seen no aggression, but then I haven't seen eggs either.

The only "nest" aggression is from the angelfish when thy have eggs someplace. Unfortunately my TDS and KH are too high and the eggs harden and are not fertilized.

I did put a small saucer (6 inch) filled with sand and planted with a few "breeder grass" types of plants in hopes that the flagfish will prefer to lay eggs in the dwarf hairgrass or microsword or on the sand itself. I want them to be secluded in the back nestled in the hornwort to minimize the disruption of breeding. My luck they will come to the front center and lay eggs in the java moss on my driftwood and chase everything all the time.

[anonapersona]

Rosy barbs will eat hair algae with a passion! I got two and in a couple of hours they had taken out 90% of the long black stuff (looked like leg hair or pubes). In 24 hours it was gone, gone, gone.

Much easier to find, too.

[cpr4cpu]

I've seen lots of fish munch on hair algae, everything from platies, swordtails, barbs, snails and gouramis. Once I started feeding them a complete diet and added spirulina and herbivore frozen foods they all stopped eating algae (and now look much more colorful and happy)

[WolfPup522]

I had such a hard time finding Flag Fish, that I went with a true SAE. She's eating the black hair algae with a vengence! She's left the ottos alone (after swimming around to meet them, of course) and she gets along great with the other fish. She's got such personality and is a great addition to my tank. I would definately recommend these fish for hair algae problems. Just make sure it's a true SAE, as the LFS told me the "look alikes" won't touch the stuff.

[GulfCstAquarian]

I bought ten SAE's for my Black Brush Algae-ridden 55g tank and while they are definitely mowing down the algae, it has been 1 1/2 weeks and they still aren't halfway through it all! I thought they'd chew it down a lot quicker! I think they're busy eating the green and brown algae that is now growing since I pulled out my Sailfin Pleco. Maybe I need to add a new pleco.

[djlen]

To really beat BBA you have to, IMO, pull the affected parts out of the tank and bleach 50/50 water/bleach for in-animates(filters, intake tubes, heaters, rocks, wood etc.), and 19:1 water/bleach for plants. Dip hardy plants for 2 mins., tender plants for no more than 45 secs. While you have everything out of the tank scrub all the walls of the tank and then do a thorough gravel vac/water change of 50%.
Make sure that after dipping all the stuff in bleach you rinse WELL
and then dip everything in a tub/bucket with fresh water and a double dose of 'Tap Water Conditioner' before re-introducing it back into the tank. While your at it, check your hands. They probably will smell like bleach. Dip them in the 'conditioner' bath as well before sticking them back in the tank.
Jack up the CO2, and add the ferts back. This, to my limited knowledge is the ONLY proven method to get rid of the stuff.
Len

[WolfPup522]

I'll try that this weekend, but I do have one kinda stupid question... I've never had to "jack up the CO2," so how is this done?

[djlen]

I meant add more CO2. If you use pressurized, try to get it up to 25 - 30ppm. If you use DIY you might add another bottle. If you don't use CO2, maybe you should consider it. Once you rid the tank of BBA, your best defense against it re-occurring is healthy, growing plants. This is accomplished with fertilization and CO2.
Len

[cpr4cpu]

I hate to advertise for them, but Florida Driftwood has flagfish. I should probably mention that I AM in the US and being native to Florida they are easy to come by, True CAE's are too hard to come by, or too expensive when I do see them.

Hair algae is only a problem when there is too much iron. It is not like cyanobacteria (blue green algae) that won't go away. If you have your light, CO2, and fertilizers correct, hair algae is very easy to control.

[WolfPup522]

Thanks for the advice. I don't use CO2, but I do have live plants. I'll check the iron and CO2 in the tank this weekend.

My wonderful experience with my new true SAE came to an abrupt end yesterday when I found her dead. There was no sign of disease or of the other fish beating up on her, the water temp. was fine, pH levels were correct, etc., so I have no idea what happened. All the other fish are fine. I'm going to get a test kit with the widest variety of tests I can find (that I don't already have) and try to find out what may have killed her. Thanks for adding CO2 and iron to my test kit shopping list. I greatly appreciate it.

[djlen]

Wolf, save yourself some money. You don't need a CO2 test kit.
All you need to find the CO2ppm is to know your kH(carbonate hardness) and pH. Both of these tests come in a Master Kit which, in short is a kit that contains test kits for pH, gH(general hardness), kH, nitrItes, nitrAtes, and ammonia. Buying the one kit will save you some bucks and you should be able to find one at a decent LFS. Once you know your pH and kH, you get that info here: http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm

Just enter the two variables into the calculator and it'll tell you your CO2ppm. In a moderately lighted tank, it really helps to have 15 - 20ppm/CO2. 25-30ppm being the optimum. This is not absolutely necessary, but really helps them out-compete certain forms of algae.

Iron test kits are notoriously inaccurate and difficult to use. BBA is a symptom of an unbalanced tank, inadequate fertilization, and in many cases lack of CO2. If you don't balance all of the above the plants don't grow at optimum efficiency. This opens the door to BBA and other algae types.
Len

[cpr4cpu]

wolf, ditto. All you need is a good pH kit and a KH (Carbonate hardness) kit.

I prefer to use a digital pH meter by Hanna Instruments. Got it off Ebay for about $25

CO2 calculation is a cinch using the link in the post above, iron tests are terribly inaccurate unless you buy a high end kit ($150 or more) and there is no need.

If you don't inject CO2, you can use Flourish Excel to add the carbon to the water, and Flourish Iron to supplement iron. Here is a good page to check for why plants look less than perfect.
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_nutrient.htm

you can find just about everything on Chuck's Planted Aqauaria Page or on plantgeek.net (specializing in plants only)

[Skittyfish]

Just so you know---don't go on vacation for a week and not have fertilizers put in! I am back to fighting the algae again! It seems as if I had just gotten everything cleared up and the water was as perfect as it could be. Not now, looks like a swamp with all that gunk growing on everything. I've pruned and dosed and scraped, and then started over and did it again!
Wish me luck and I wish you the same.

[cpr4cpu]

dang skitty, I could have told you that!
A week is pretty fast for algae to take over, do you have a lot of light over your tank, or direct daytime sun hitting it?

I can miss dosing for a week without that kind of setback, and I run 2 watts per gallon 12 hours a day, injected pressurized CO2, and a HEAVY fishload with heavy feedings. I try to keep my nitrates near 10 but under 20ppm as well as making sure I add iron. Potassium and phostphate can usually make it a week without a problem as long as you don't run out of nitrates and iron.

[WolfPup522]

Thanks for the advice! Sorry about the delay in response, but I've been on vacation and didn't check the forum. Anyway, I'll get a kit for kH (already have pH test kit) and see what I come up with. I also cleaned my tank while on vacation and tried to get rid of as much as of the hair algae as possible. So far, so good. It's not completely gone, but there's about a 90% improvement.

By the way, my LFS called to tell me they finally got some flag fish in. I couldn't resist, and brought 2 home yesterday. For those of you (like me, until yesterday) who have never seen one, pictures don't do it justice. It really is a beautiful fish.