My fish all died!!

[yashinfan]

I just bought four zebra danios from the pet store. All were healthy and fine. I brought them home, put them in my tank in the bag for 15 minutes to let the temperature adjust, then added some of my water to the bag for 10 minutes to make sure the pH was correct for them. I let them out and they were fine and happy in my tank for 30 minutes until suddenly, one of the females started spinning crazily, looking like it was having a seizure or something!! It died right away. Shortly after the other three followed and now all of them are dead!!! I don't know if this is why but they all started to die after I added some food- brine shrimp made by Hikari. Was it because of the food?? I tested the amonia after the first one died and it was 0. I guess I'll be making a trip back to the store to get my money back. I'm really really upset because they were doing fine! I have no reason why they are dead!!!

[kveeti]

I am so sorry to hear about your zebra danios. I doubt it was the food.

Good for you for having a testing kit and testing the ammonia – a nitrIite reading would also be good. But the fact your fish died so quickly suggests some other toxin. In your 32 gallon thread you mentioned you used a dechlorinator, so that is fine, as far as the water you added to your tank goes. (I assume your water supply does not contain chloramine since you did not have an ammonia reading, but do you know for actual fact what your water supply company adds, chlorine or chloramine?) So you have to investigate other possibilities…

I am going back to your “32-gallon cycling” thread, where you state: “I set it up today and it has been bleached and rinsed twice. I put it new gravel which was also cleaned.”

After you bleached and rinsed, did you add dechlorinator specifically for that? How exactly did you clean the gravel? Did you use any soaps at any time? What other ornaments have you added (rocks?) and how did you clean them? Did you use any household sprays near the tank? These are just a few possibilities. Tell us everything you can think of.

[goldfish freak]

I am very sorry to hear that all you fish died:( . I am sure that it had nothing to do with the food you added, since it would not have polluted the water that fast. Surely not so the danios would have died that fast. Kveeti is likely correct at assuming that it was some type of toxin. If you did not rinse the gravel very well and then treat it with water conditioner, a significant amount of bleach might have been left on it, especially if you used alot of bleach. This with the use of any type of soap or household cleaners would have poisoned your water. Never use any type of household cleaner to clean your tank or anything that is going in it. The only exception would be plain bleach with no perfumes or any other type of cleaners added. Even when using bleach you have to make sure that your rinse very well and add a double dose of dechlorinator(water conditioner) to the container of water that you rinsed your items in.

[yashinfan]

I took a water sample to LFS and they tested for amonia, nitrites, and pH. Amonia = 0; nitrites=0; pH = 8!!!! WHAT THE HELL?!?! I tested it myself the other day and it was between 7 and 7.5!!! How could it have changed that rapidly??? I bought some pH 7.0 stuff from the store and they said to leave that in for a day and that I should wait another couple of days for the amonia to lower since I left the fish in the tank for a little while (oops!!). The store gives 100% refund so I'm going to get another set of danios on thursday. Guess it was good not to start with 10! Well, next time I go to the store I will test my tank water there and my tank water with the store's kit. The LFS people assured me it was not the food as it was top of the line stuff. The gravel was cleaned with only water, same with the plastic plants in the tank. I'm sure that the bleach would not be in the tank at all since it was washed twice, I let it run for two days with dechlorinator and I added some more dechlorinator today. I guess I'll just have to try again, but it made me really sad!:(

[OrionGirl]

What kind of gravel do you have? Decorations? There are many things that you can put in the water that will cause the pH to climb, including decorative and crushed coral.

The pH down product might not be the best solution--it can cause other, unintended problems and seldom results in a stable pH. What is your tapwater pH?

[TKOS]

Check to make sure that your pH tester actually goes to 8 or higher. Some test kits max out at 7.5 and therefore that is the highest they will let you know about. As well hopefully your LFS used a new test kit, but if has been sitting around for awhile it might not be very accurate either.

[goldfish freak]

Yashinfan, this is what I suggest that you do: change nearly all of the water in your tank to get rid of any traces of ammonia, pH down or bleach that is in your water,test your water, let the tank sit with the filter running till the day you are going to get the new danios, test the water again, grab some more of your boyfriend's gravel(if you have not taken all of it from the top yet), spread it on top of your gravel, get the new danios, float them in the tank for about 15 minutes, slowly add some of your tank water to the bag for another 15 minutes, catch the danios using a net and release them into the tank. As long as the pH of the water that your danios came from is lower than your own, than you do not need to adjust it. Fish can be placed from a lower pH to a higher pH with little problem, but the opposite is not true. Do not mess with "pH Down" or other products similar to it, they cause more problems than they solve. I suggested that you add more of your boyfriend's gravel because the bacteria in your tank are going to die if you leave them without a source of food for days. I also would like you to check the type of bleach that you used, if it is anything but regular bleach and contains perfumes or other type of cleaners than the gravel and your plastic plants may be poisoning the water, and you will likely not fair any better with your next group of danios. I don't want you to go through what you did again. I wish you luck with the new fish, you may have just had some bad luck.

[yashinfan]

The gravel and plastic plants were not cleaned with bleach, only tap water as recommended from my LFS. The gravel is called "Top Fin" and I've used it before with my goldfish and have had no problems with it. My tap water is in between 8.0 and 8.5. The test goes to 9.5, I think? The guy at the LFS said adding some of my boyfriend's gravel and water might have been the cause as it may have upset the new tank's balance. I don't know how it would higher it because his pH is 7.2 now. So do you think I should actually change the water??? The LFS guy said to leave it be until the pH drops naturally. I guess i could change like 25% of the water per day? But all the water would be a real pain. I'll go check what type of bleach.. Econochoice concentrated bleach. It doesn't have a scent really? It just smells like bleach? lol, I don't think sniffing bleach is good for my health. Um, let's see. Oh yea, about the pH down-ing stuff, it was recommended by the LFS and my b/f and his buddy who has all sorts of crazily rare expensive fish. So I don't think it will be bad for the fish?? It's all natural with aloe vera and rotten eggs *smells SO bad!!* The LFS's pH testers are top quality, this is actually a reputable store: Al's Aquarium Services. I don't know if you've heard of it?? But they actually know EVERYTHING. I love them :D Oh yea, so I did the pH test after I had put all my gravel and decorations in. However, I did not do one after my b/f's gravel was in there. I'm going to wait 'til thursday to check to see if everything's okay in the tank. Also I'm getting a 10 gallon tank, fully loaded for 30$ from my b/f's buddy when he's moved his fish. I think I will keep the guppies in there.

[goldfish freak]

Okay since you did not clean the gravel and plants with bleach then there is nothing to worry about in that regard. To find out if the bleach contains any perfumes or cleaners, read the label on the bottle, it should not make mention of anything else besides sodium hypochlorite. The local fish store, you mean Big Al's Aquarium Services right? Yes I know them, and if the employees are anything like the ones in my location then most of them do not know what they are talking about. To be honest with you the adivice that has been given to you by the people there is not very good and some of it is just plain crap. You will find better information here on this forum. With experience you will find that most local fish store employees know very little about keeping fish properly. About the "pH Down" type products they are not directly harmful, but indirectly so because the vast majority of them are unstable, in the sense that they will change the pH but will not hold it for long at all. In most instances the pH will go back to the level it was in a short period of time. You will have to constanly add the product to your water to bring it back to the value it was when you added the product. These constant pH changes are stressful and harmful to fish. I suggest that you start over the way I mentioned and don't worry about your pH once it has settled naturally, without the use of chemicals. It is ultimately your deceision though. Good luck.

[yashinfan]

Hmm.. I suppose that would make sense about the pH, right now it is 7.0-7.2 much more healthy than my supposed 8.0 at Al's. The people at Al's know a lot more than say, Pet Smart. Pet Smart people are actually the most unknowledgeable people! GRR! Well the guys at Big Al's seem to know their stuff, maybe it's just in comparison to the other people tho? lol. Now, if the pH stuff makes the pH 7.0 for when the fish arrive, isn't that good so if it slowly changes a bit higher than they would be able to adapt (danios can live in 6.8 to 7.4 from what I've heard.)? Okay, and I just did an amonia check and it was 0. This worries me because I expected it to be at least 1 because my fish died. The test is somewhat old and belongs to my b/f. However, the dead fish were in the water for at least 20 minutes before I brought it to the LFS to be checked. The water tested clean for amonia. Does that mean that my levels are safe already?? I'm not going to rush out to buy fish, don't worry about that. I'm going to test the pH everyday until I get my fish to see how long the pH will be balanced. If it stays the same until I put my fish in, then I'm not worried. I can add the stuff while they are in there and it won't harm them. I have no problems doing water changes, tests, and additions daily (I have no life! lol!) so long as it doesn't jeopardize my fishies. I've had enough trauma this week :(

[goldfish freak]

True, the pH will likely shift upwards gradually and the danios will be able to adapt, but if you are going to use this product for the arrivial of your danios then just use it that one time, it will not be necessary anymore after that. Besides why would you need to use it if your pH is testing at 7.0-7.2? Don't worry about your ammonia testing at 0 since it is most likely accurate because your fish were only dead in your tank for 20 minutes. 30 minutes of them being in the tank alive and 20 minutes of them being in there dead is not enough time for ammonia to accumulate in the water. Hmmm...."I can add the stuff while they are in there and it won't harm them", what do you mean by this? Do you mean that your are going to add the "pH Down" to the water in the tank while the fish are in there? If this is the case then you are wrong, it will harm them. If you are going to add this product to the water than you need to do it at least an hour before you put the fish in.

[ArkyLady]

I'd still be concerned about some type of toxin in there. If it were me, I'd dump it all out and rinse everything THOROUGHLY with dechlorinated water to make sure all the bleach is gone. Then start over and do a fishless cycle. Since you have access to an established tank, you can do a fishless cycle in a couple of weeks and have the tank truly ready for the new fish.

[yashinfan]

No, no! The pH is 7.0-7.2 now! lol. With the pH 7.0 stuff. Without it my water was 8 from the tap. Okay, I won't add it once my fish are in there- unless it is an emergency! I promise! I think the fish were in the tank dead for close to an hour, as we didn't take them out 'til after we got back from Al's. We then brought them to Pet Smart to receive store credit. What was I going to do with a bag of dead fish in between that time?? Okay, as for bleach residue: My tank has been washed out twice already, been running with dechlorinated water for the past 3 days. I don't think washing it out one more time would do anything at all. The tank does not smell of bleach and I believe that my b/f and I did a thorough job of cleaning it because I was so worried about losing my fish. As for the fishless-cycle, honestly, I'm not a fan of this. My boyfriend is not a fan of me stealing his pump in return for mine either, although that would be great. He does not want ANY of my stuff near his tank as he loves his four year old goldfish more than his parents. lol :p I might do it for my next tank since I could use my other filter for that. But right now I'm assuming that I will be getting new fish on Thursday. I know, for one who cares so much about her fish I should be willing to wait the 6 weeks but I'm just impatient. :o

[ArkyLady]

I suppose the high PH could have shocked them and killed them that fast, but I don't know for certain. I've never seen fish die that fast even with moderately high ammonia levels. If you've cleaned it that well, you're probably right. I'd definitely do a HUGE water change before adding any more fish.

Take some of your tap water and let it set out for a few days (with an air bubbler if you can) then test the PH and see if it's still 8 or not. If it will stabalize on it's own after a few days, then you can keep a bucket of water out to "age" and use that for your water changes. Then your PH will stay stable without having to use any chemicals to alter it which can make it fluctuate too much and be harmful for the fish.

Good luck to ya! Keep us posted :)

[goldfish freak]

No! Please do not add the pH down product to your water even if it is an emergency. These products drop the pH very raipidly. The sudden drop from 8.0 to 7.0 could KILL your fish, or at least be very harmful. Like I mentioned before moving a fish from a lower pH to a higher pH is not harmful but it certainly is the other way around. It is good that your boyfriend is so protective of his goldfish, I am the same way with mine. Oh, and about being impatient, don't worry this hobby will teach you patience eventually;) . LOL!

[yashinfan]

Hmm, see my pH went down by itself to 7.4 before with chlorinator and sitting in my tank for a day. So it shocked me when they tested my pH today and it said 8.0 So I don't really understand what caused this dramatic change? So is the general consensus that I do a water change right now and add some new water with dechlorinator and wait until its pH has dropped naturally?

[goldfish freak]

Yes. There is a possibilty that your test kit is faulty or that the gravel from your boyfriend's tank has added to the hardness of your water and caused the pH to rise. How long has that gravel you took been in your tank after you tested your water again and got the reading of 8.0? The reason that the pH in your boyfriend's tank is 7.2 might be because the presence of his goldfish. Water tends to acidify over time with fish in the tank, especially if there are alot of fish or the fish are big.

[yashinfan]

I'm going to assume that my test kit is not faulty because it reads 7 with the pH 7.0 thing added. My b/f's gravel had been in the tank for.. let's see.. we put it in this morning before we left. So not very long at all? I'd say, at most, an hour. I'd say it was in for at most, 2 hours before it tested 8.0. My b/f says he adds straight tap water to his goldfish tank and does not even treat it because they do not care and are in perfect health. My tap water is 8.0, so is it possible that adding his little jar of fish water & gravel spiked my pH??? If so then I shouldn't use his gravel and water again.

[goldfish freak]

No, I don't see that it is possible that your pH spiked in only two hours. The only other thing I can think of is that you read the test strips wrong. You said that they go up or down in increments of .5. Is it possible that you mistook the one color for the other? Those test colors can be pretty hard to determine sometimes.

[yashinfan]

Well I know that the strip was green which is the 7.0-7.9 level. Maybe I mistook the 7.0-7.5 level for the 7.6-7.9 level? I know the the strips are working because when I poured the test water down into the sink it turned blue because of the tap water in it. I am going to make Pet Smart test their water and my water with the same kit to make sure they are compatible, if they won't then I will steal their fish *shifty eyes* Actually, something really cool: When they write you the paper for the credit, they have 3 lines. Two of which are blank right now because I only returned one species. It's already signed by the manager and there was no other copy of it. Do you think I would get away with writing that I need 4 guppies too? I know the code for them too. lol. I probably wouldn't do it, but it'd be a fun way for revenge and it'd save me like.. 11$. haha.

[thecowman]

That would definitely be bad karma for you and your tank. Stealing is bad. Even if it is from Petsmart haha..and if you're gonna steal fish, steal something more valuable than guppies!

[yashinfan]

"No one ever suspects the butterfly." But in fish terms: "No one ever suspects the guppies."

[thecowman]

Well, Petsmart people aren't to bright.."So you had 4 Zebra Danios and 4 Zebra Pl*cos, right? Ok, here are your fish" haha..what a steal that would be. But like I said, bad karma for you and your fish!

[yashinfan]

So if my pH is now 7.0 and the store's pH is 7.4 to 7.6 than the fish would die?? I just want to understand everything.

[brianfl]

I really doubt that small of a change. When I fist started keeping fish, I had some from a store where they had a ph of about 6.6 and mine at home was over 8. They swam for a while but then suddenly died. Probably within 20-30 mins. I learned my lesson. In any case a gradual change usually doesn't cause problems (except for sensitive fish) but large fluctuations can be distastrous. I have had danios in all sorts of conditions and they have always seemed hardy. Every once in a while. a fish store will get a bad batch (diseased or weak) of fish in. You may have just gotten unlucky.

[yashinfan]

See that sounds like what happened to my fish though. They swam for 20-30 mins and then all died! I'm definitely just checking everything before I get new fish, I think I would give up on fish if I had to deal with another batch dead.

[goldfish freak]

Don't give up so easily, it could just be a bad source.

[yashinfan]

My boyfriend's danio lives in plain tap water now since it has been acclimated. Maybe I should have tried his? lol. What do you think is the most resiliant fish?? Maybe I could try introducing this fish to my tank first?

[yashinfan]

My pH has been stable a little above 7 ever since I added the pH 7.0 solution to my tank three days ago. Do you think it will be okay to add my danios tomorrow?? Any suggestions or precautions I should take?

[fishdude]

originally posted by yashin fan
The people at Al's know a lot more than say, Pet Smart. Pet Smart people are actually the most unknowledgeable people!

At my local petsmart there are two people with degrees in marine biology and they always answer my guestions in detail. so i guess it depends on where you live