Help!!!

[LMOUTHBASS]

Hi guys 'm new to the site here, but i need some help big time i have just gotten a 20 gal tank, i always had a ten as a kid growing up, but i havent had one for a while, anyhow, i didnt have any clue about all this amonia and nitrate stuff and it is overwhelming i feel like you have to be a biology major to get this right, so all i knoew was that the girl in the pet store told me to put the tap water chemical and a little of the live bacteria stuff in the tank and let it run for a couple of days ,,, so i did and i thought this was ok, but i had no idea you had to check for amonia and nitrate, i didnt even know what this stuff was until reading these posts so i got the testing kits and my levels are way high, the lousy part is i have bought some fish, before i knew this stuff i thought i was doing the right thing, so now i have no clue how to get these levels down, i totally didnt know about this whole "fishless cycle" thing but is this something i can do now even though i've got the fish in the tank, also i have planted several plants in my tank but it's been about a week and they are starting to die, i'm so fustrated because i feel like a moron i thought i set everything up right, any how what can i do to get this thing on track??? i also bought some amonia neutrulizer just to fix the water so my fish survive for now, but can i start the bio filter now even though the fish are there and if so have i already started it because ive put the bacteria stuff in a couple times now anfd how much shoul i put in and how often and how long till my tank is healthy??? someone pls help i'mbummin big time here, the funny thing is the couple of fish i got in my tank seem pretty well so far, the tank has been running for a week n a half or so

[optix]

what are your water parameters and what type of fish do you have. I would say do frequent 50% weekly water changes if not 25% every other day to keep the ammonia and nitrite down. Test for nitrate, if you are reading any at all you are well on your way. Just keep doing water changes until you aren't reading any ammonia or nitrite.

[Awestralian]

Yeah exactly what optix said :D - water changes are the way to go.
How high is way high?
Most of all calm down.
You're no help to your fish if you are freaking out. :p

[LMOUTHBASS]

yeah i'm not freaking out i'm just upset about the whole situation, ummm the nitrate level was reading as like a mid to dark purple color on the little chart thing which was high i guess it was suppose to appear as light blue, when i change the water shoul i take all the fish out, or just leave them in while i suck out the water, but you think this will help get everything down to safe levels soon??? about how long? i have community fish 3 gouramis, 3 platies, and an angel, with lots of plants

[LMOUTHBASS]

the fish got ick this week so i am treating them with this wardley's ick stuff, well the good news is it's pretty much gone , but wil this have any effect on my previous question about getting the bio filter goin, also will the stupif ick stuff come back even when i have medicated the water and will be changing it like you guys tol me to??? thanks a lot for your help with this

[optix]

The water change will rid some of the ich in its free swimming stage. the meds are taking care of those anyway so the water change is just adding clean water. How often are you treating the tank with your med. Im not familiar with wardleys med so I am not sure if it will do damage to your bacteria colony. What type of filter are you using?? Man thats a bad situation. Ich in a noncycled tank. Raising the temp will rid the ich quicker but will also limit the oxygen while raising the ammonia to highly toxic levels. I think im gonna leave this one to oriongirl or someone else well knowledgable about these situations

[OrionGirl]

I would keep treating with the medication, replacing the amount that you remove with the water changes. (ie, if there's 1tsp.gallon, change 3 gallons and replace 1/3 tsp of the wardleys). The water changes are a necessity to keep ammonia and nitrites from killing the fish, and the medication will treat the ich. Keep in mind that you need to keep treating after the last visible ich cyst--the cyst is just sitting out there waiting to hatch. Since raising the temperature will have very negative consequences for the fish and should be avoided, this means you should treat for at least 2 weeks after that last cyst is visible on the fish.

Wardley's is primarily malachite green, which is not supposed to impact your biological filtration. So, the water changes will keep the ammonia down, the wardley's will help kill the ich. It's a buit of juggling, but you should be okay. Make sure to use a gravel vacuum with each water change, to remove as many cysts as possible before they hatch.

[anonapersona]

If your fish store sells BioSpira, I read that it works well, it might be worth the investment to get this cycling over with.

What "bacteria stuff" were you adding?



Dying plants are not good for the water quality, but in general plants are helpful. Let's find out why they are dying... what sort of plants are they? Tropica.com has great descriptions of plants, if you don't know the names you might find them there from the pictures.

Plants require light... what sort of light do they get? If you don't know the wattage, we can tell from the length of the flourescent tube for most standard hoods.

pH is also important for plants, what is the pH?

[LMOUTHBASS]

stress zyme live bacteria stuff to help the cycling but i'm not sure how long its gonna take but this other stuff your talking about is suppose to speed it up shoul i get some of this??? ummm my plants, i dont know their names so i'll have to get back to you on that but i can describe them, the one i like a lot and is sort of disintergrating looks like an underwater spider plant it has long narrow leaves that are green with a whitish color near the sides of the leaf, then i have some real grassy wiry lookin plants at the bottom, then i got this one awesome plant that is tall with long stem n then it has flat broad leaves and grows really wuick this one looks like its doin well though!!! i want to keep with real plants cause i like the look so much more but it seems as though they will be difficult to keep, the lighti have is just the standard one that came with the aquarium, shoul i get a specific one for the lants, i got some liquid plant food to try to help them out

[cpr4cpu]

this is starting to sound like a test of your patience lmouthbass,
you have ich, a non-cycled tank, and dying plants...

All I will offer you is this, we all started out with our first tank at some point in the past. We all had the same learning curve you did. Look to OrionGirl for help with getting your water right, look to Plantbrain if you want the best plants possible. The rest of us have all learned from them both, and we share what works for us. Just slow down, learn about one thing at a time until you are comfortable with it, you might consider the nitrogen cycle to start.

Many factors impact successful plant growth, many of which can be avaoided if you buy the correct plants for your conditions. I have spent more money on my plants and their health then I have spent on the tank and fish, by at least double. I have lots of light, pressurized CO2, adding fertilizers every other day and pruning monthly, and that's just one of the tanks :-) You really should learn all you can on keeping healthy fish in an established tank before you start planning the aquatic jungle.

[LMOUTHBASS]

now i feel a little overwhelmed shoul i just take all the plants out of my tank fisnish this bio cycle thing and then start over by buying new plants, ughhhhhh i thought you coul put plants in there put light on em and they woul thrive, this is gonna be tough

[Sharyl C]

Re: Plants

Just like different species of fish require different water parameters, so do different species of aquatic plants. when you get a chance try to figure out what kinds of plants you have, and/or what types of plantswould do well in your tank. there are a lot of great websites and books on this topic

Re: Cycling & bacterial additives

I would like to make sure the difference between nitrItes (NO2) and nitrAtes (NO3) is understood in this case. NO2 is the second step in the cycle and can be just as toxic as ammonia (NH4). In a normal cycle you will see a peak in NH4 followed by a peak in NO2, but both should reach 0ppm soon. NO3 (nitrates) are considered not as toxic and are the final stage in the cycle. when these are present in your water test readings you know your cycle is almost complete.
An exception to this can be a false reading produced by the use of certain live bacterial additives. I'm not a fan of the additives in the first place and feel there are better, less expensive ways to cycle a tank.

Re: The problem at hand

Lmouthbass - i know you are feeling overwhelmed and you do have a lot on your plate, but asking for help and acting on the advice given you is the best thing you can do. First i would prioritize your problems.
The non cyclcled tank and the ick are fairly equal in my book - but as Oriongirl stated they can be dealt with at the same time. remember water changes, water testing (try to relate results in numbers [i.e. 10ppm vs. 80ppm] rather than colors [dark purpler vs. light blue], most scales should provide both), feed lightly every other day, and remove leftover food or decaying plant material as soon as you see it. if you have carbon in your filter remove it - it will absorb the ick medicine before it has a chance to work.
The plants - although they are not doing well, i see them as a secondary problem. most likely if you have the proper conditions for them they will bounce back once your tank is back on track. the ick medicine may not be the best for them - so removing them to a bucket of fresh water w/ and airstone and some sunlight may be better for them while you are medicating.

i hope this helps. please keep us posted.