View Full Version : Suitable fish for a 24"x12"x12"? Advice please?
Chele&Luke
09-04-2007, 5:14 AM
Hi there,
I have just started my fishless cycle, and want to be ready to go with a clear idea on what to get once it's set to go!!
The basic criteria is to have a lively/pretty tank for my 15 month old son - he adores watching fish when we go out! Wish I'd paid more attention at the beginning because I've since discovered he would be just as happy with a couple of goldfish... lol
I think for his benefit I would need at least a couple of 'larger' fishies for him to see - I like the idea of Angelfish, but am not sure how comfortable they would be in the 24"x12"x12" (I know this tank used to have 2 in it with some other fishies). Would Angelfish be ok and what would I put with them?
I also like the look of the tigerbarbs, but know they definitely NOT going to work with Angelfish...
Neon's I like the look of too, but I think I'm going to need something larger in there too to keep young Lukey interested! :D
I would really appreciate all your advice on what fish I could put in there that would be a happy community, NOT overstocked, be fairly hardy and look pretty for my son. Anything suggested would also have to fairly easy to get!
If you have any suggestions could you please also advise me of an appropriate temperature for the group?
At this stage there are no live plants in the tank, and I'm not sure that I'm 'brave' enough to attempt keeping them alive just yet!
Big ask I know, but would really love to hear your suggestions and appreciate your taking the time to read this thread!
Many thanks,
Chele & Baby Luke :)
jpappy789
09-04-2007, 9:42 AM
A 15 gallon (~57L) tank will not be enough space for angelfish or tiger barbs. If you want a single "large" fish, the bigggest I would go is a dwarf gourami. Then you could add some harlequin rasboras (8) for some activity and maybe some snails or shrimp for the bottom...
The basic criteria is to have a lively/pretty tank for my 15 month old son - he adores watching fish when we go out! Wish I'd paid more attention at the beginning because I've since discovered he would be just as happy with a couple of goldfish... lol
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Neon's I like the look of too, but I think I'm going to need something larger in there too to keep young Lukey interested! :D
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At this stage there are no live plants in the tank, and I'm not sure that I'm 'brave' enough to attempt keeping them alive just yet!
A+ on doing the cycle!
If you will humor me...
In my opinion...a big fish in a small tank is...well...kinda boring. They swim BAACK and forth and may mooch food...but...Lively?
I'd go with several smaller fish. I think you could easily do:
--a half dozen or so Endler's...livebearers related to guppies, VERY lively, males are very colorful...sizes range from 1/2" fry to 1.5" females.
--Plus maybe 3-4 cory cats from the same species....corys foraging is always interesting.
Endler's occupy all levels, mostly mid-top, corys on the bottom...
Both are hardy and 'durable'. :)
This may seem understocked at first, but that's a good thing to see how it goes... Plus: Endler's would make up for it over time; and your son may find the babies interesting. Excess fry can easily be given away to other fishy people.
a side benefit of many small fish...YOUR small one may not miss one or two if/when they pass. kinda hard to hide when it's one big fish. Save that for when they are older...
Neons/rummynose/glowlight/cardinal tetras all sound good, they are bright and active...I just haven't had any in many years so I can't offer more advice.
I have ~20 Endler's from fry to adult, in a 20H...same 'footprint' as your tank but taller.. First you see the 75G with the Goldfish...typical reaction is "wow, those goldfish are huge"...then they see the 20H "hey look at all the cute little fishies" and they ignore the GF and watch the Endler's...
OK, I think I beat that dead horse up enough...:eek:
Plants are a plus...provides things for the fishies to nibble on as well as competing with the algae. java moss is a great hideout for fry as well as easy to grow. hornwort and anacharis sometimes drop their leaves when introduced to a new tank, but usually recover with a vengeance and grow well. Water Wisteria grows well, too.
Coupla ramshorn snails and Malaysian trumpet snails are neat too.
--Don (OPINIONATED? ME?)
furfinsfeathers
09-04-2007, 6:57 PM
Good point, Don, about not missing one that looks just like the others. I just had to explain to my 3 year old what happened to our smallest goldfish (fins got munched off by the biggest goldfish and he got ich).
jm1212
09-04-2007, 7:06 PM
Platies are some pretty coloful fish that would be perfect for your tank. plus they are pretty hardy.
Chele&Luke
09-05-2007, 5:17 AM
Thanks to all for your advice!
Kj5kb - you have made a BRILLIANT point about 'hey mommy, where did the fishie go??' That hadn't actually occurred to me (until now) and will be taking your advice seriously on board!!
Could you possibly help me out with the numbers? I have been looking at http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profile.html#profile and pretty much eliminated Rummynose & Cardinal - 'delicate' is perhaps not the best idea right now!!
Am thinking Neons and Glowlight - so what would good numbers be for them?
Liking the cory cats suggestion - 3-4? And are they going to be ok on a gravel substrate?
Here's the real 'kicker' - I have NO IDEA what endlers are or what they look like! Couldn't find them on badmans either - do they have another name?
JM1212 has also got me thinking that my 10 gallon might be better with Platies - I was going to put a Betta in there with maybe a snail, but you guys have me seriously thinking about the consequences of a LARGE DEAD fish! lol
Someone in the comments section at badmans said they kept 3 together in a 10 gallon, would that be acceptable? Or what could be 'pretty' in such a small tank?
Or am I just over reacting here and should stick to the Betta plan? The 10 gallon is going into my sons bedroom - the theory being that when he wakes up he will watch the fish and go back to sleep!! (hey, I'm an optimist :) )
Ok, onto the plants - you've ALMOST got me convinced!! Many thanks for the suggestions, and I will have a crack at Java Moss (availability depending) at least. I need to get a new 'bulb' (the florescent (sp) thingie) for my light, what wattage should I be looking at for successful live plants?
Also should I stick with the gravel substrate I have now (no one colour - but a speckled mixture), or consider changing it to something else before getting too much further in...
I saw in another thread about painting the back black, and someone mentioned using a black garbage bag cut to size and using that as a background - will DEFINITELY be doing that!! MUCH nicer looking than my poxy background :)
Apologies for turning this post into a novel! Am very keen to get things right (or as right as I can!!) from the start and not have too many fatalities and happy healthy fish from the start! :)
We appreciate ALL the help and suggestions you have given us so far,
Chele & Baby Luke :)
furfinsfeathers
09-05-2007, 7:03 AM
Endler's http://www.aquariumhobbyist.com/endlerslivebearer/
Brightly colored, varying patterns. John N. has had some for sale in the classifieds here, but I don't know about shipping to New Zealand. Care is the same as guppies.
Not sure how hard it would be to find Endler's in NZ...
Guppies would work, too. I'd go for the cheap "common" ones plenty colorful and active.
I like the idea of platys...maybe 4-5 with 3-4 corys. They get on well...actually they totally ignore each other. I have a 30G (soon to be 40) with 12 corys and 5 platys. If you are lucky enough to find platy fry somewhere...they are fun to watch grow up.
IMHO, one betta in a tank is not very lively...but I'm not a "betta guy"
All the plants I've suggested did Ok in a 10G with an old 15W tube. Not fantastic, but they did grow and multiply.
I've used a natural river gravel ~pea size-ish from the DIY store...not sure what you have over there. corys are quite fine with it...and it allows me to run an RUGF (search AC on that for info)
furfinsfeathers
09-05-2007, 9:39 PM
I've read that guppies and mollies are not as hardy as they used to be due to inbreeding, but I think they're still a good starter fish. From what I've read, platties are hardier.
Most cory cats are fine with gravel, but there's one I read, can't remember which, that should have sand instead due to the delicate barbels (I think that was the word, the wisker things).
jpappy789
09-05-2007, 10:09 PM
Most corys would be better in sand but mine do just fine in gravel, all their barbels are healthy
pcnicholson
09-05-2007, 11:15 PM
As long as your substrate doesn't have any sharp edges the corys will do just fine. Just whatever you decide, make it smaller stuff that they can shift around a bit while looking for food.
Chele&Luke
09-06-2007, 3:17 AM
Many thanks for the link - will be doing some phoning around tomorrow to find out about Endlers, they look neat!!
Plus I'll need to hit the lfs to get that replacement bulb - if 15W works, that'll do! Already sourcing some java moss ;)
At what stage would I add java moss or water wisteria (2 I've found readily available locally)? Do I need to wait until I've got my cycle complete?
And just to clarify stock numbers to start out with:
15 Gallon
Endlers/guppies x ??
Neon/Glowlight Tetras x??
Corys x 3-4?
Ramshorn snail x ?? (don't want these to become a problem, and is red ramshorne ok?
10 Gallon
Platies x ??
Another Ramshorn snail??
Again many MANY thanks!!
Started to get excited now!!
Stench update: so far my decomposing shrimpie is NOT smelling too bad, just as long as the hood and lid are kept firmly in place - water testing is not so much fun however. Glad I ain't doing this in summer.... :D
Cheers,
Chele & Baby Luke :)
furfinsfeathers
09-06-2007, 6:57 AM
Endlers are pretty unusual, so you may not find them at a local store, but maybe you could order them online from someone in NZ? Less shipping would be less stress on the fish.
Ramshorn snails are hermaphrodites. They are each both male and female, so one snail all by itself can have lots and lots of babies. How about an apple snail/mystery snail? These come in male and female, so if you only have one, no babies.
Chele&Luke
09-08-2007, 5:23 AM
Thanks for the heads up on the Ramshorn!!! Will NOT be getting one of those for sure!
And you're dead right on the Endlers - I found a NZ site with a forum and someone was 'bragging' they had just imported 12 from ENGLAND!! Definitely not available locally - and I imagine the stress for them coming that far would not be too good! Guppies & Tetras it is :)
Stench update: Still not too bad, definitely a bit 'whiffy' if you get too close :)
furfinsfeathers
09-08-2007, 7:46 AM
Well, you could always ask now or save that person's e-mail or pm and in 6 months when his/her tank is full of baby Endler's, ask them if they'll sell you some! :)
ILOVEBETTAS
09-08-2007, 8:02 AM
You seem knowledgeable for a N00b! That's rare :)
A paradise gourami would work, plus some cories (maybe 5.) Cories aren't big, they grow 2''-3'' but they're bulky (they're bottom feeders.) And to top it off, 4 platies.
furfinsfeathers
09-08-2007, 8:50 AM
Thanks, Ilovebettas. :) I, um, research obsesively. I love the internet. World's biggest library right here in my house. I haven't even gotten my Endler's yet and I'm totally in love with them. Have been choosing tankmates very carefully because I consider it such an honor to have the chance to raise such a pretty fish that's so rare and may even be extinct in the wild.
I couldn't find you any Endler's in NZ, but I came across a guppy message board based in NZ but you have to join to read the posts. Some guppy owners have Endler's, too, because one can get some really cool crosses. They will interbreed. http://guppy.co.nz/index.php?name=FORUMS Maybe someone there would have some?
Swayde
09-08-2007, 8:58 AM
Many thanks for the link - will be doing some phoning around tomorrow to find out about Endlers, they look neat!!
Plus I'll need to hit the lfs to get that replacement bulb - if 15W works, that'll do! Already sourcing some java moss ;)
At what stage would I add java moss or water wisteria (2 I've found readily available locally)? Do I need to wait until I've got my cycle complete?
And just to clarify stock numbers to start out with:
15 Gallon
Endlers/guppies x ??
Neon/Glowlight Tetras x??
Corys x 3-4?
Ramshorn snail x ?? (don't want these to become a problem, and is red ramshorne ok?
10 Gallon
Platies x ??
Another Ramshorn snail??
Again many MANY thanks!!
Started to get excited now!!
Stench update: so far my decomposing shrimpie is NOT smelling too bad, just as long as the hood and lid are kept firmly in place - water testing is not so much fun however. Glad I ain't doing this in summer.... :D
Cheers,
Chele & Baby Luke :)
You can add the plants any time. The sooner the better actually. They can help with the cycle and even sometimes eliminate cycling.
Chele&Luke
09-11-2007, 3:08 AM
Well, you could always ask now or save that person's e-mail or pm and in 6 months when his/her tank is full of baby Endler's, ask them if they'll sell you some! :)
*evil grin* Yeah. I got them bookmarked already!!
And thanks for that site recommendation - I did register and the only mention of Endlers was to ask if we had 'em here! Apparently we DO but they called 'guppies' - LOL :confused: :headshake2:
Basically the one person to answer that thread said that we have them, only not identified as Endlers - so it's going to take someone a LOT more experienced than me to spot 'em!!
I went down the the LFS today, and I am either amusing them or annoying the hell outta them, possibly both at the same time!! You don't find too many people doing a fishless cycle round these parts, and you can almost see the balloon appearing over their heads saying "bloody hippy"!! lol
I now have 18W light and some moss!! Also have at least two tiny hitchhikers which has taken care of my snail dilemma assuming they can survive my ammonia (1 - 2ppm) and nitrite (through the roof!!) levels! Any advice on that one?
Also soaking a couple of chunks of driftwood in a bucket, water looking reasonably clear so should I go ahead and chuck 'em in the tank?
My 'corpse' is starting to disintegrate and get a lil ... errrr ... fuzzy?? Is it time for me to find a new 'victim' to replace? (One of my hitchhikers has made his home on a nice glunky bit!!) Also the water has gone fairly cloudy from 'floaties' escaping his pantyhose prison, tho has cleared a bit since I put in the moss/added the 10g hob filter as well. Anything else I should be doing?
Stench update: Not bad at all... Not terriffic, but definitely not bad!! Maybe having a really large living room is helping, or my sense of smell has left the building, but I really don't notice it unless I'm going in there for some reason! If/when this works I will definitely recommend the dead shrimpie!!
As always, many thanks to those who have taken the time to read this thread, and special thanks to those who have given me such excellent advice!!
Chele & Baby Luke :)
furfinsfeathers
09-11-2007, 7:15 AM
Guppies and Endler's are either separate species but closely related or Endler's may be a type of guppy. Since the hybrids are either infertile or have a reduced fertility rate, I think they are separate species. If you watch the feeder fish tanks at pet stores, you may spot a part-Endler guppy hybrid.
Sorry, don't know about the cycling with a shrimp, but sounds like progress is being made!