Did I Make a Fatal Mistake? HELP!

[Hollygirl]

I had four White Cloud Mountain Minnows in an Eclipse 3 Gallon tank, that comes with the charcoal filter and bio-wheel. I had hornwort and Java Moss as well as Java Fern in the tank. When they spawned, I decided to up-grade since the males (2 males, 2 females) would chase each other and have no place to go. I set up a 20 gallon long (30 by 12 by 12) and put hornwort, java fern, java moss (from the old tank), hairgrass (short) and glossostigma in the new tank. The 20 gallon has the Eclipse charcoal and bio-wheel lighted hood. One of the hornworts came from the old tank as well as a good size clump of java moss. The tank ran for 3 days before I added the four white clouds. Will they be okay? That whole business of "cycling" is new to me. Do you think the plants coming from the old tank were enough? I don't plan on adding a ton of other fish. I have four babies (1 week old) in a 1 1/2 gallon fish bowl that will join the adults when they are large enough. Also, I only rinsed off the live plants that I purchased at the Aquarium dealer. Should I treat the water for parasites such as Hydra just in case? Any information would be greatly appreciated!:help:

[Hooked Newbie]

I had four White Cloud Mountain Minnows in an Eclipse 3 Gallon tank, that comes with the charcoal filter and bio-wheel. I had hornwort and Java Moss as well as Java Fern in the tank. When they spawned, I decided to up-grade since the males (2 males, 2 females) would chase each other and have no place to go. I set up a 20 gallon long (30 by 12 by 12) and put hornwort, java fern, java moss (from the old tank), hairgrass (short) and glossostigma in the new tank. The 20 gallon has the Eclipse charcoal and bio-wheel lighted hood. One of the hornworts came from the old tank as well as a good size clump of java moss. The tank ran for 3 days before I added the four white clouds. Will they be okay? That whole business of "cycling" is new to me. Do you think the plants coming from the old tank were enough? I don't plan on adding a ton of other fish. I have four babies (1 week old) in a 1 1/2 gallon fish bowl that will join the adults when they are large enough. Also, I only rinsed off the live plants that I purchased at the Aquarium dealer. Should I treat the water for parasites such as Hydra just in case? Any information would be greatly appreciated!:help:


3 days is definitely not long enough I'm afraid. The plants would be of minimal help for cycling the new tank. If you can move some filter media & gravel it may help more. Read the sticky at the top of the page that says "Read this before you get fish". There's a ton of good info in it on cycling.

In a nutshell... fish waste and uneaten food create ammonia which is toxic to fish. Over time bacteria colonies grow (on the filter media and to a lessor extent in the gravel) that eat the ammonia. These bacteria eat ammonia and create Nitrite (NO2) which is also toxic. Again, gradually new colonies form that eat this and create Nitrate (NO3). Nitrate is consumed in small amounts by plants, but needs to be removed with weekly water changes (25 - 50%). Do you have a liquid test kit? If not get a good one (API Master) and test your water daily. Do large water changes to reduce your Ammonia (and then Nitrite) levels to below .25. Until your readings stable at 0 for both ammonia and nitrite your tank is not "cycled".

[Hooked Newbie]

Oh and :welcome: to AC!

[Rowangel]

Yes, transferring the plants may help to establish the cycle faster, but what would be better is to transfer some of the filter media from the old filter to the new filter. That will help cut down the cycle time of the tank. In the mean time you should test your water parameters daily and if you register any nitrite or ammonia do a water change asap to keep the levels as low as possible. Do you have a test kit? The liquid kind is best. To your benefit the stocking is quite low, going from a 3g to a 20g with only 4 fish, you should easily be able to do daily water changes and stay on top of any ammonia or nitrite spikes, but make sure you test to know for sure.

Just to check, since you don't seem familiar with the cycling process, your 3g was cycled right? How long was that tank established?

Also, don't bother to treat the tank for parasites unless you notice an issue. Most medication is stressful on fish and should be avoided unless needed. Hydra also requires perfect conditions to survive, they wouldn't make it in a cycling tank.

[Hollygirl]

I obtained the white clouds from a friend who no longer wanted them. They were in a 1/2 gallon bowl with some hornwort. When I bought the 3 gallon for them, I transferred some of the hornwort and did basically the same thing that I did this time and that was to wait three days before adding them to the 3 gallon set-up. They did fine so I figured everything was okay. They were in that tank for about 2 months. I still have the 3 gallon set-up as I was going to add the babies in a couple of weeks and let them grow up in that tank. Even though what I read is that white clouds don't eat their young, this group was eating them. What would I add from the old tank to the new one? The filter media consists of a charcoal filter pad and the bio-wheel which is still in operation though no fish are in the tank. There are live plants in there however. Would the partial water changes be enough? I don't have a kit to test the water but will get one immediately! My concern is that I have done something cruel to my fish when my intention was to make their lives more natural and content. Thanks for your information!

[Hollygirl]

3 days is definitely not long enough I'm afraid. The plants would be of minimal help for cycling the new tank. If you can move some filter media & gravel it may help more. Read the sticky at the top of the page that says "Read this before you get fish". There's a ton of good info in it on cycling.

In a nutshell... fish waste and uneaten food create ammonia which is toxic to fish. Over time bacteria colonies grow (on the filter media and to a lessor extent in the gravel) that eat the ammonia. These bacteria eat ammonia and create Nitrite (NO2) which is also toxic. Again, gradually new colonies form that eat this and create Nitrate (NO3). Nitrate is consumed in small amounts by plants, but needs to be removed with weekly water changes (25 - 50%). Do you have a liquid test kit? If not get a good one (API Master) and test your water daily. Do large water changes to reduce your Ammonia (and then Nitrite) levels to below .25. Until your readings stable at 0 for both ammonia and nitrite your tank is not "cycled".
How much gravel would you recommend to move to the new tank?

[wataugachicken]

i really wouldn't worry too much. if the biowheel and filter pad from the 3g are still wet, move them over to the new tank. put the pad into the filter and float the biowheel on top of the water. 4 white clouds are not going to produce enough waste to foul a 20g tank in just a few days. stick with a regular weekly water change schedule and that should be enough.

[Hollygirl]

Thanks so much! The last time my husband and I had tropical fish was about 15 years ago. The rule of thumb was not to overcrowd and to do the partial water changes. I was changing 1/2 gallon once to twice a week when the 4 white clouds were in the 3 gallon. The 3 gallon is still in operation. How long should I float the bio wheel from the 3 gallon in the 20 gallon? And yes I am getting my "test kits" first thing tomorrow morning.

[Hooked Newbie]

Thanks so much! The last time my husband and I had tropical fish was about 15 years ago. The rule of thumb was not to overcrowd and to do the partial water changes. I was changing 1/2 gallon once to twice a week when the 4 white clouds were in the 3 gallon. The 3 gallon is still in operation. How long should I float the bio wheel from the 3 gallon in the 20 gallon? And yes I am getting my "test kits" first thing tomorrow morning.

I agree with Wata. Move as much gravel as you can and the biowheel. The plants won't be near as fragile and should be fine. Don't beat yourself up, you'll be fine. It's obvious that you care or you wouldn't have asked the question! Trust me, been there. This site and the great members here saved my fish before I could become an aquatic serial killer. :)

Good luck and keep us updated!

[Hollygirl]

I agree with Wata. Move as much gravel as you can and the biowheel. The plants won't be near as fragile and should be fine. Don't beat yourself up, you'll be fine. It's obvious that you care or you wouldn't have asked the question! Trust me, been there. This site and the great members here saved my fish before I could become an aquatic serial killer. :)

Good luck and keep us updated!
I did a 2 to 3 gallon partial water change today. When I get the kits tomorrow I will let you know the test results. I always knew that aquariums went through a biological change but never knew the specifics until I found this site. In the meantime my four white clouds seem very happy. They are schooling, eating, and the males are enticing the females to spawn (this is always the case with these four). My plants look good too. The hornwort is spreading out a bit and the leaves are not clamped. Thanks for all the advice and the encouraging words. I will keep you posted.

[OldMan1947]

If you are not using the 3 galloon right now, move the whole filter to work with the new one on your 20. The whole thing was cycled so for the same fish it should be far enough along to deal with their waste. The problem then becomes letting your new filter take over the bio-load. Once it does you can think about more fish and think about setting up a hospital / isolation tank with the old 3 gallon.

[Hollygirl]

If you are not using the 3 galloon right now, move the whole filter to work with the new one on your 20. The whole thing was cycled so for the same fish it should be far enough along to deal with their waste. The problem then becomes letting your new filter take over the bio-load. Once it does you can think about more fish and think about setting up a hospital / isolation tank with the old 3 gallon.
My system in both tanks is the Eclipse which has the charcoal filter pad and the bio wheel in the hood. I can float the wheel in the new tank. I was going to use the 3 gallon to raise 4 white cloud babies that are currently in a 1 1/2 gallon bowl. They are 10 days old today. They will join the 4 adults in the 20 gallon in a couple of months if all goes well.

[Hooked Newbie]

I did a 2 to 3 gallon partial water change today. When I get the kits tomorrow I will let you know the test results. I always knew that aquariums went through a biological change but never knew the specifics until I found this site. In the meantime my four white clouds seem very happy. They are schooling, eating, and the males are enticing the females to spawn (this is always the case with these four). My plants look good too. The hornwort is spreading out a bit and the leaves are not clamped. Thanks for all the advice and the encouraging words. I will keep you posted.


Awesome to hear and thank everyone at AC for the advice. I am just repeating what I received. :) I was in very similar circumstances a few months (and tanks) ago.

[Hollygirl]

Well my tank has been set up for eleven days now, and I thought I would update anyone interested in my 20 gallon long, four White Cloud tank. Everyone is alive and happy. I did purchase the API Master Kit and have done several tests. My tank is heavily planted with live plants (25% of tank). My readings were at 0 ppm for ammonia and nitrites, and today I am at 0 ppm for ammonia, 0 ppm nitrites and between 0 ppm and 5.0 for nitrates. I have been doing a 10% PWC daily. I hope I am on my way to a happy and healthy tank. In the meantime my five (I thought I only had four but there are five) White Cloud fry are eating and active. I will be moving them to the 3 gallon Eclipse set up this weekend. Thanks everyone for your help, and especially for recommending the API Master Kit. I found it very easy to use.

[silentskream]

yay congrats!
seems like everything is going swimmingly!

i may have missed something, but is there a particular reason you don't want to leave them in the 20 gallon? they could certainly enjoy the space!

[Hollygirl]

yay congrats!
seems like everything is going swimmingly!

i may have missed something, but is there a particular reason you don't want to leave them in the 20 gallon? they could certainly enjoy the space!
The four White Clouds in the 20 gallon are adults. Their original home was the 3 gallon Eclipse System. The five White Cloud fry were rescued from the 3 gallon and are now in a 1 1/2 gallon fish bowl. They are only 2 1/2 weeks old. I plan on raising the five fry in the 3 gallon until they are large enough to join the adults in the 20 gallon. The total of 9 White Clouds is all I plan on keeping in that tank. From what I have heard about White Clouds, it is often said that they do not eat their fry. Mine were munching on them like popcorn, so five is all that I managed to save. I think with only 9 White Clouds in the 20 I won't have as many water "challenges". I'll tell you one thing though - I have sure learned a lot about "cycling" in this short time! And everything is perfect in the 3 gallon tank. It has been in operation for a little over 2 months now.

[wataugachicken]

congrats! it's good to hear that everything is going so well.