So, I'm trying to save a powder brown tang..

[Subliminal]

I stopped by the lfwis (local fish with ich store) today on my way home from lunch to do a little browsing, and the first fish i noticed was a 2 inch powder brown with ich REAL bad. I felt awful, and the sticker said $49.

So, I asked the owner what his plan was, and yadda yadda, he sold it to me for cost: $12.

More news as the story develops. ;)

[Max]

I'd start with a good f.w. dip make sure the ph of the water matches your tank water though. It's stressed out as it is now and we don't want to make it worse! Please, keep us posted I'm tempted to save fish from time to time but, I usually avoid doing so . I don't like to encourage bad practices. I'm not yelling at you or anything but, it has to be said if he would q.t. his fish he'd save a lot of money and lives.
keep us posted please.
Max

[archer772]

I would also put nori in the tank everyday for him and soak any other foods that you feed in garlic. Good Luck

[Subliminal]

Well, the guy is learning. He has sand in the bottom of his fish tanks, and I've been telling him for a while he should go bare bottom so that the ich doesn't just live down there forever...

And today, when I was walking out, he was instructing an employee on how to best remove all sand from all the tanks....so, more power to him!

Here's a pic of the poor lil sick guy:

http://lh3.google.com/damontmorris/RubF43fZKJI/AAAAAAAAB3c/59H48id2ewE/s800/Picture%20005.jpg

[Subliminal]

The hospital tank setup:

http://lh3.google.com/damontmorris/RubGf3fZKKI/AAAAAAAAB3o/v8Uo4bQ8H1Q/s800/Picture.jpg

[Max]

Looks good glad that he's in a better home! How are you planning on treating the poor guy? I'm glad that the lfs is listening to you ," you should mention a consulting fee ;) ." I really do wish you the best that's a nasty case of ich I'd almost consider giving it a very breif dip in malachite green or some other copper based med . I don't normally advocate the use of copper or meds in general but, there are times when it's called for. Le pauvres poissons.
hth
Max

[Neenie]

Hope he pulls through, he looks ok apart from the ich of course and I think he's in the best hands, knowing what you know already about ich!

[FeatherDuster]

I wish you the best of luck! Its great that you managed to give a fish a chance at life and inform the fish store of its mistake while trying to improve their practices.

[Subliminal]

Here's the plan:

He's in a 10g tank with 1.019 sg

in 48 hrs he'll go in a second 10g tank, maybe 1.020-1.021

in another 48 hrs he'll go back in the first 10g with 1.021-1.022

in another 48 hrs he'll go back in the second tank with 1.023-1.024

After that, he'll probably go in the display, which admittedly is way too small for a tang, but he's a little fella, and there is PLENTY of food in their for him, so he'll be alright for a while, and then eventually he'll go to someone in the nj reefers, as getting rid of a small tang shouldn't be a problem at all.

The plan in the QT tanks it to use a freshly scrubbed tank with 100% water change each time. What this does is when the ich drops off the host and the eggs go into the bottom of the tank, the water is totally changed and the life cycle of the parasite is broken. Do that a few times and I'll have a healthy little fishie.

:)

[Subliminal]

Finally found the old thread on NJReefers.org:


To get rid of the parasites is a two part process. One part is to rid the fish themselves of the parasites and the second part is to rid the tank (complete system) also.

To rid the tank (complete system) you have to leave it fallow (without fish to host the parasite) for 2 months. Without a fish host the parasite it can't complete it's "cycle" and will die off (this requires a lot of patience and discipline).

To rid the fish of ich you have a few choices. You can treat with copper in a hospital tank or treat with hyposalinity (again in a hospital tank) or use the tank to tank transfer method. Some fish are less tolerable to copper then others. Also some fish don't do real well in hypo either. I myself prefer the tank to tank transfer method. I've tweaked the T to T transfer method and have a following on RC and other boards with people using it. Here's an overview of the process.

You will need a minimum of 2 QT tanks and HOB sponge filter (or other filter). The type of filter isn't a big deal and servers more to oxygenate the water then really "filter it". The process my method exploits is the fact that the parasites will only stay attached to the fish for 3 to 7 days before falling off into the substrate and rock to reproduce and start the next phase of it's cycle. What we want to accomplish is to let the parasite drop off the fish but never allow it to reattach to the fish. We do this by:
1. Put fish in QT tank 1
2. Move fish from QT tank 1 to QT tank 2 in 48 hours
3. Empty and thoroughly clean tank 1 including filter system. Let airdry until you use it again.
4. Move fish from QT tank 2 to QT tank 1 (now clean) in 48 hours.
5. Empty and thoroughly clean tank 2 including filter system. Let airdry until you use it again.
6. Move fish from QT tank 1 to QT tank 2 in 48 hours.
7. After 48 hours in QT tank 2 move the fish to it's new destination.

Basically, you put a fish in a clean QT tank for 2 days. Every 2 days you move it to another clean tank. At the end of 8 days all the parasites will have fallen off the fish (3 to 7 day cycle) but since each fish was never in the same tank long enough for the parasite to reattach it will come out "clean". This works for marine ich and velvet (much worse then ich and a fast killer).

To do this process you need 2 sets of tanks, 2 heaters and 2 filters. I myself don't use any sponges or media in the filters (mostly to aerate the water). Since the fish get completely new water ever 2 days there isn't any worries about testing the water. It's important to make sure the water in each tank matches so you don't stress the fish on the move. For example make sure the temp, pH and salinity match. You can use 10g or 20g long tanks depending on size of the fish to be treated.

You can of course use more then 2 sets of tanks. For example if you have 3 tanks you could start one today and start the next tank tomorrow (staggered). You will have 2 tanks with fish in them and always have one tank (clean and dry) to use as the new replacement tank. Same with having 3, 4 or 5 totals tanks (just hold one back as the clean tank and stagger the start up of each tank). Don't put sand or live rock or anything porious in the QT tanks. You don't want anything the parasite will "stick to". You can and should drop a couple pieces of PVC tubing or elbows in the tank for hiding places. Any PVC used in the tank needs to be cleaned and allowed to dry out before using again.

The tricky part is getting all the fish out of the tank! The other obstacle is that you need to leave the main system fallow (without fish) for 2 months. You'll end up needing yet another tank to put the fish in after they get done the QT process while you wait for the main system to rid itself of ich. This tank needs to be setup clean and you don't want to use any sand or rock from your system or you would contaminate the holding system from the start.

The holding system (after QT) doesn't really need to be a tank at all. I've used 32 and 44 gallon brute trash cans with a canister filter attached and a powerhead and some household light near the tank. Keep an eye on ammonia, nitrite and nitrates in this tank.

It's a major pain and undertaking to rid your system of ich. The best method (ideally) is to never allow the parasite to enter the system in the first place. You can do this by using the method above for all new fish arrivals (8 days in the T to T QT method). You technically should also QT any non fish for 2 months before allowing it to enter your tank. This includes corals, sand, rock etc. The reason this last piece is important is that the parasite could be attached to a piece of coral you pickup from somebody else. Once in your tank if it successfully attaches to a fish the ich cycle has started in your tank.

With all the above said you can also try and wait it out. The ich parasite has been studied very, very well. It has been shown that after enough cycles (attach to fish, drop off, multiply, reattach to fish) it will die off in your tank in approximately 11 months if no new ich has been introduced. This is where both UV and Ozone can have a big impact. A properly setup UV system can help tremendously in keeping the parasites from reproducing at a fast pace. If the water is flowing slow enough (check your UV docs) it will kill off any parasites going through the unit. The key is to run the UV unit stand alone and not hooked into the sump. You want the UV unit to pull water from the middle of the tank at the bottom (parasites live mostly in the substrate). Ozone is also good at killing off the parasites and no special setup is needed for this. Other methods that are usefull in controlling ich are to syphon the substrate as often as you can. If you can do this every couple of days then do so. Just top off with new salt water.

If you can't let your main system go fallow then you pretty much have to try the above items as best you can to get to the point of letting the parasite die off. Just make sure to QT any new arrivals so you don't introduce new parasites. If you can net a fish with obvious parasites attached to it you can give them a dip in methylene blue.

All the above is just one way to combat this. It was also just an overview but should contain enough info to use. If anyone has questions or wants more information let me know and maybe I can write up a more detailed instruction set/article on the tank to tank transfer method and uses of methylene blue in QT procedures (what it treats, ways to use it, etc).

This is only one way to treat the fish and other methods are copper and hyposalinity.

[tankanator]

WOW way to go, that it great that you doing so much for one little fish. I hate to go into a Fish Store and see horrible conditions for the fish or any animal, luckily my LFS does a great job and cares about there fish. Keep up the good work and keep us posted.

[Subliminal]

Yeah, he's looking ok, except for the nastiness all over him. Right now his QT tank is like 2 feet from this computer, and he's just swimming almost against the glass on this side of his tank. I just feel bad for him with the itchiness he must be feeling right now.

Ah well, at least I'll get to have a tang in a 29g for a little while...take that TANG POLICE! (j/k...if he looks unhappy at any time, or grows quickly, it's splitsville for him.

Or maybe by then I'll have my basement done, and I'll build that fish room I've been thinking about.

Assuming he survives, of course.

[clown-lover]

Other than the ick he looks really cool.. Good job on the save I really hope you are successful. I want to hear how this process works to for the fish.. I know the tank will still have to stay fallow, but if you can save the fish that quickly it will be something else to pile away in the brain.

[Subliminal]

Well, the process I cut and pasted doesn't necessarily all apply for me. The fallow part is not my deal, as my tank has no such issues. I just need to rid the fish of any parasites before he goes into the main tank.

[clown-lover]

Duh ok.. So yea its not from your tank.. But I still want to know if it works for the fish.. I don't have ick in my tank but its one of those good things to know type of deals.

[Subliminal]

It worked for me last time. I still have both of my clowns, and one was REAL bad.

But you're right..will be good to know. :)

[SHK_ATK]

hope everything turns out well, I JUST bought a power brown yest. he looks identical to yours hes in a 10G (qt of course) he will be transfered soon to a 40G (as hes a baby) then after he outgrows that hell meet his roomates in the 240G.

[Subliminal]

Well, the second qt tank is up and mixing the salt...I'm trying a little different method this time for circulation, as I've been told tangs like especially aerated water:

http://lh6.google.com/damontmorris/RuhfqaBklxI/AAAAAAAAB4Q/4SUJmTx5wbE/s800/Picture%20096.jpg

So far, so good!

[clown-lover]

Is the tang itself looking any better???

[Subliminal]

A little, although not much. It's pretty early in the game, though. I think by the time it gets back to the 1st tank for the second time it'll be hard to even notice anything on the fish. Of course, you can't see inside the gills and such, and I hear they're the first thing the parasite go for.

[tanhql]

you can try seachem paraguard.

http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/ParaGuard.html

[clown-lover]

A little, although not much. It's pretty early in the game, though. I think by the time it gets back to the 1st tank for the second time it'll be hard to even notice anything on the fish. Of course, you can't see inside the gills and such, and I hear they're the first thing the parasite go for.

I am really interested in this process as it fits in with my thought process of doing things the natural way so that is why I am so interested. If I don't ever have to use chemicals to treat a fish I don't want to.

[Subliminal]

RIP lil buddy...he didn't make the second night.

Sucks.

[clown-lover]

Darn.. man I am sorry. I know you didn't intend on keeping him but that just sucks.

[Subliminal]

Yeah, poor lil fella. Actually bothers me since i was taking care of him and he died.

Oh well...at least I gave it a shot.

[Marcus Fenix]

sucks...sorry for your loss

at least you tried.

[Riverserver]

It's not your fault, it's the LFS's for letting him get that bad. At least you tried.

[clown-lover]

Yeah, poor lil fella. Actually bothers me since i was taking care of him and he died.

Oh well...at least I gave it a shot.

ITS NOT YOUR FAULT! Don't even go there. You tried to save a fish that your LISWF (Local Ick Store with Fish) let go way to long. I applaud you and your efforts man, you in my book at A#1 (and not the steak sauce either :) )

[Reefscape]

really sorry to hear that the fish did not make it....such a shame when a fish goes..

Niko

[Neenie]

awww sorry subliminal... thought he had a great chance with you looking after him, ick must have been really far gone and just nothing you could have done, at least you tried though..