Flourish Excel wiped out the hair algae!

[silversalmon]

Thanks to what I learned from this forum, the severe hair algae (black beard variety I think) that had been plagueing my 128 planted aquarium for the past several months is completely wiped out. I had tried removing the stuff by hand for awhile, but I couldn't come close to keeping up with it and it just grew back in a matter of days. I was ready to throw in the towel when I went to the local aquarium shop and was told to buy a u.v. sterilizer to get rid of the hair algae. Luckily, I found this forum before I made that purchase. I put out a question about the use of the u.v. sterilizer and one recommendation was to install a CO2 system. I also read about the use of Flourish Excel in eliminating hair algae. I tried the Exel (didn't install the CO2 system) and within less than two weeks the hair algae was completely wiped out! Now my plants are growing like crazy and are covered with lots of fresh, bright green leaves! Then it hit me - I had used Excel for a number of years and had very little algae at all during that time. I had stopped using Excel within the last year after the shop stopped carrying it and it about that time that the hair algae took over. The one freshwater shrimp in the tank died shortly after the first Excel treatment, but I don't mind that if the hair algae is gone! I recently inquired at the aqurium shop about the CO2 system. The shop owner questioned whether it would be effective in eliminating the algae. His answer was blunt - "Algae is a plant and if CO2 is going to make your plants grow, why wouldn't it also encourage the growth of the algae?!" Good question. I'm curious what you think regarding his response - why would a CO2 system eliminate the hair algae? I really appreciate the help this forum provides - your suggestions saved my plant tank!

[fgump]

I'm curious what you think regarding his response - why would a CO2 system eliminate the hair algae? I really appreciate the help this forum provides - your suggestions saved my plant tank!

I'm new to all this, so this is just a guess. But with C02, your plants will grow. When they grow, they use the nutrients in the water. With less nutrients in the water, there's not enough for the algae to grow.

[ho114nd]

Plants use nutrients and Co2 more efficiently than algae. Co2 will boost plant growth and therefore increase their nutrient consumption, leaving less nutrients for algae to consume. Under optimum conditions, plants will out compete algae for resources. It is when there is an imbalance in resources that algae will oportunistically grow.

[phanmc]

There is a relatively new theory that suggests most forms of algae require ammonium as a nutrient and cannot use other forms of nitrogen like nitrates while plants can use both. I can increase the nitrate levels in my tank to 40ppm daily with no algae growth, but add a little of common terrestrial fertilizer which usually contains NH4 and algae will start growing.

So you want enough growing plant mass to suck up the NH4 produced by the fishes and CO2 plus lighting is the most important components to plant growth.

[echoofformless]

Excel is rumored to contain algaecide.

[phanmc]

Excel contains polycycloglutaracetal, which is a form of glutaraldehyde. Glutaraldehyde is used to sterilize and disinfect among other things, so it's not really a surprise that polycycloglutaracetal has an biocidal affect on lesser organisms like algae.

[DarkSoul]

doesnt excel kill inverts though? I have a baby snail in my tank id like to keep alive.

[silversalmon]

After I first dosed my aquarium with Excel, I found the one freshwater shrimp in the tank dead a couple days later. However, the many snails in the tank seem to be doing fine

On a separate note, if the CO2 system encourages plant grow which then reduces the amount of resources available to the algae, is there a similar effect from using Flourish Excel? I've definitely noticed a lot of new plant growth since I starting using the Excel again. I know that the Excel doesn't promote the growth as well as the CO2, but it would seem to me that the Excel induced growth would help reduce the nutrients available to the algae, in addition to the algacidal properties of the Excel.

[Quartermain]

There is a relatively new theory that suggests most forms of algae require ammonium as a nutrient and cannot use other forms of nitrogen like nitrates while plants can use both.

Sorry, this is certifiably false. I can prove it because I have grow tanks that have no fish (and thus no ammonium) but still have algae. Algae, like most plants, probably prefers hydrogen bound (NH4) over oxygen bound nitrogen (NO2, NO3) because it is generally easier to metabolize. I know for a fact that it does not require it.


I can increase the nitrate levels in my tank to 40ppm daily with no algae growth, but add a little of common terrestrial fertilizer which usually contains NH4 and algae will start growing.

Terrestrial fertilizers contain a cornucopia of highly concentrated mineral nutrients. The algae probably isn't consuming the ammonium so much as taking advantage of the excess nitrates that the plants, most of which also prefer ammonium, are now ignoring, in addition to the excess nutrients in the water column.



On a separate note, if the CO2 system encourages plant grow which then reduces the amount of resources available to the algae, is there a similar effect from using Flourish Excel? I've definitely noticed a lot of new plant growth since I starting using the Excel again. I know that the Excel doesn't promote the growth as well as the CO2, but it would seem to me that the Excel induced growth would help reduce the nutrients available to the algae, in addition to the algacidal properties of the Excel.

Absolutely. If the plants have a good source of carbon the plants are going to be more healthy over all. A healthy plant metabolizes more efficiently either storing energy that it doesn't use or diverting that energy to resources such as producing chlorophyll which is going to sustain the plant at peak metabolism according to the amount of light you give it. Algae, which are less efficient, just won't have a chance to 'eat' as it were. This is what it means to 'out compete' the algae.

[DarkSoul]

After I first dosed my aquarium with Excel, I found the one freshwater shrimp in the tank dead a couple days later. However, the many snails in the tank seem to be doing fine

On a separate note, if the CO2 system encourages plant grow which then reduces the amount of resources available to the algae, is there a similar effect from using Flourish Excel? I've definitely noticed a lot of new plant growth since I starting using the Excel again. I know that the Excel doesn't promote the growth as well as the CO2, but it would seem to me that the Excel induced growth would help reduce the nutrients available to the algae, in addition to the algacidal properties of the Excel.

excel = carbon .... its basically liquid carbon, instead of gaseous CO2

[jessicar613]

doesnt excel kill inverts though? I have a baby snail in my tank id like to keep alive.

I just started using Excel. I lost some ghost shrimp but my snails seem to be doing fine.

[DarkSoul]

so it kills shrimp... but not snails.... interesting.... I wanted some shrimp too :(

[mellowvision]

excel contains way more than carbon.

I've been using it without any noticable affects to my shrimp, I think the key is to follow the instructions and not overdose.

[phanmc]

Sorry, this is certifiably false. I can prove it because I have grow tanks that have no fish (and thus no ammonium) but still have algae. Algae, like most plants, probably prefers hydrogen bound (NH4) over oxygen bound nitrogen (NO2, NO3) because it is generally easier to metabolize. I know for a fact that it does not require it.



Terrestrial fertilizers contain a cornucopia of highly concentrated mineral nutrients. The algae probably isn't consuming the ammonium so much as taking advantage of the excess nitrates that the plants, most of which also prefer ammonium, are now ignoring, in addition to the excess nutrients in the water column.

Fish waste is only one source of ammonium, decaying plant matter and some bacterial byproducts also generate ammonium. One thing is for sure, high levels of nitrates, phosphates, and trace minerals do not lead to algae problems alone. I've tripled the recommended amount of ferts before making sure I'm at excessive levels with no algae growth.

[SQUEAK]

so it kills shrimp... but not snails.... interesting.... I wanted some shrimp too :(

I have used Excel with both shrimp and snails with no adverse effects. I think that the key is not to 'shock' the water parameters here - the first thing to do when you first get a chemical is to put full dose (or even more) of it - and in a depleted water column, that can be a drastic change. Invertebrates traditionally are more sensitive to parameter changes.

From my experience (and only mine!), I'd say that it is more than possible to use Flourish with snails and/or shrimp - but I would slowly increase the amount that you are using.

I'm actually experimenting with NPK - I finally found a local supplier of it. Watch this have adverse effects ;).

[kimmisc]

Excel does not kill snails, ghost shrimp, or cherry shrimp. I'm using 3 times the recommended dosage with no casualties.

Her ghost shrimp (she stated some ghost shrimp deaths) could have died for any number of reasons, including the fact they naturally have short life spans.

[jessicar613]

I'd be interested to hear if other people have lost shrimp after using Excel. The day after I added my first dose I woke up to piles of dead ghost shrimp in both tanks. I don't think this was a result of their naturally short life span.

[Que]

I don't know how true this is because I find this site lacking at times but it appears Excel isn't nice for vals.

Q

http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-195.htm

[mellowvision]

no, and I think it's mushing up a few leaves on one of my plants (crypt? with the roots on the leaves... forget the name)... the tips are turning slightly darker and translucent since I started using excel. for now it's a fair trade off, I will ween off it shortly.

[kimmisc]

Vals = Jungle Valisneria? (sp?) If so, mine aren't doing so hot with the Excel either, but I don't care much for them anyway. Probably going to ditch them soon.

[bghill]

When I started using Excell to treat BBA I lost all my Corkscrew Val and Riccia. Both plants were doing great. The Vals had sent of runners in all directions and I was throwing out cups of Riccia with every water change. Now both are gone and the BBA is managable but still not totally eradicated. I lost 3 Panda Cories as well when I started dosing with Excell. Don't know if it was a coincidence or not.

[silversalmon]

When I first dosed my 128 g aquarium with Excel to get rid of the hair algae, I followed the directions. The directions state that you should use one capful per 10 gals for the initial treatment and thereafter use one capful per 50 gals every couple days. Since the tank is 128 gals, I used 13 capfuls for the first treatment and didn't treat the tank again for about a week. The shrimp died within a day or so of the first treatment. I later asked the local aquarium shop about that and was told that the chemical in Excel that acts as a algacide will kill inverts. I read the label of another product that is an algacide that is meant to be used in planted tanks. The label warned that it should not be used if inverts are present in the tank. I've now treated the tank 3-4 times using the 13 capful dose to make sure that all the hair algae is gone and the tank is crystal clear, the plants have loads of new, bright green leaves and are growing like crazy. All the hair algae died, decomposed and fell off the plants or I removed what remained easily by hand. No fish mortalities and my tank's back to normal again. I also noticed that I'm getting only very minimal growth of the green algae that grows on the glass and even that is very slow and needs cleaning only about once a week. That's what I had in the past when I used Excel - that stuff really does the trick with the hair algae! I now going to start the 2-3 capfuls every couple days to keep things under control and encourage plant growth. Perhaps doses of Excel at that level would be tolerated by the shrimp and other inverts.

[Lansirill]

I dose a full cap of Excel into my 33G once a day, although I tend to forget once in awhile. I have an asian filter shrimp, amanos, ghosts, and RCS in the tank and they handle the Excel just fine. Two of my ghost shrimp are even carrying eggs.

On the downside, my tank is still lightly infested with hair algae. Maybe I should stop feeding my shrimp and make them forage for algae for a while.

[DarkSoul]

I just dosed excel for the first time lastnight, and the baby snail I have in there is just as alive as ever.... this thing is a racing snail man, he has been bombing all over the tank doing whatever the heck it is he is doing, and he seems to be growing quite fast.

I also did a half dose of aquarium salt too.

[vidiots]

My experience with Excel is that it does help control algae, and helps most aquarium plants grow well but not all aquarium plants for example I could not keep hornwort alive in any tank treated with excel, but it grew just fine in tanks without it. I'm sure there are other species of plants that are effected like this, but hornwort is one I know for sure is.

[ThePBM]

i have hornwort thriving in a tank that i use excel in.

however, flourish excel chewed one of my cherry shrimp in half. yes, i blame the excel. not my fish. lol.

[DarkSoul]

I have a hornwort too that seems to be doing very well, even more so with the addition of excel.