View Full Version : Getting Started...The RIGHT Way.
Maverick
06-20-2003, 9:34 AM
If you've read my other thread. Your aware I currently have two cichlids. Though I still can't find an exact match to ID them with, I think we can safely assume they're Mbune from Malawi. From they're behavior and appearance, I believe them both to be male.
With what little we know about them. How would you guys set up a tank for them? I'm looking for ideas for arrangments to keep them both in the same tank, or each to a seperate tank. These fish will be the only fish in the theoretical tanks.
Thanks for any suggestions you come up with. :)
Give them hiding places but enough space for them to swim away if one feels that he is being attacked or chased.
Maverick
06-20-2003, 9:51 AM
Just how much space would that be? Would they prefer a tank with more length or width...if those factors were limited when buying.
peifc
06-20-2003, 11:05 AM
From my experience, cichlid likes length regarding space. If you have a tall tank, I will suggest you to upgrade to lengthy tank. Only gold fish or other oddball fish can deal with width. If you look at your fish tail, comparing with gold fish, cichlids have that fan like tail that either wave or peddle right and left to pick up speed.
My Green Terror died from jumping the tank when there was no space to swim forward. You don't want to make the same mistake that I did.
Create a cave like rocks for them to hide. They feel safer that way. Just remember that when the space is limited to them, the stronger fish can corner the weaker fish. Make sure when decorating your tank, there are space for the fish to squeeze through when he feels cornered.
Here, check this site out. There are great setup in there that maybe will give you some idea.
http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/tanks.htm
Maverick
06-20-2003, 1:45 PM
Thanks for the links. Those were some great setups. Any idea what materials I can use for caves that won't leach chemicals into the water?
That I'm not really sure. Rocks and mineral are hard to tell. If you know the chemistry...it would help :)
I took geology class in the past, now I don't remember a thing. I think the only think you have to worry most is that the rock contain little or no salt. Oh yes, there are some rocks does that. And it was actually salty (yeah...my professor made me taste the darn rock). Don't get any rock that contain too much metallic. Gardite is one...contains mostly metal and taste like it too. You guess it, my professor made me taste that too. Lava rock mostly are very metallic. Gardite does fall in that category.
If you see flat orange/brown color they are mainly from very hot and dry land. They don't contain crazy metallic and blah blah blah... However, after long period of time in water, they do dissolve. If you find rock that is flat yet containing layers and darker gray color, they are from stream when tide rise that wash over the rock. If you see a round rock, mostly from river, found in the water. These 2 rocks shouldn't have problem with freshwater fish. I only remember some of these rocks features. I hope it helps some what.
Maverick
06-20-2003, 3:10 PM
Helps a great deal. Thank you!
dcallen
06-20-2003, 3:22 PM
Hi,
I would say that length and width is very important. Having said that I think purchasing the largest tank you can afford is still the best policy. You may only have 2 fish now but you may want to try a different type of fish later on or simply add more fish to your existing setup. Regardless the fish will thrive and enjoy the extra space. I have a 70 gallon tank and as I look at my fish and how big they will eventually get I'm already saving for a larger tank of at least 125 gallons. As far as rock goes I have Limestone or Texas Holey Rock in my tank. A side benefit is that it will help hold the pH up. I agree with peifc, be sure to create enough hiding spots for them to retreat to. If you in fact do have 2 males then they will fight with each other so the more space you can give them the better off they will be. If you do keep them together then I would say a 55 gallon tank or above, preferably a 75 gallon tank would be best. If you decide to separate them then I would give them at least a 30 gallon or 36" L tank. That's just my opinion, you may be able to get by with less, but more is always better.
I also agree with Optix in that certain larger volume tanks don't really make much, if any difference in the long run. The 125 to 150 gallon analogy he illuded to is a prime example. You would pay quite a bit more for a 150 gallon tank and yet not reap any real rewards to speak of. As he said it's all about the footprint.
HTH
actually the footprint is what cichlids need, lengthxwidth, not just the length. you can't keep a full grown oscar that reachs 12" in a tank that is only 12" wide. While you can do it, its not in the fishs best interest. you can house the same amount of cichlids in a 125 that you can in a 150. They have the same footprint. It may seem at first like the 150 would be better, when actually it isn't any different at all to a group of cichlids. Same goes for a 20 long and 29g. 38/45, 75/90, 15/20 tall/25, etc etc. there are a few more but those all have the same footprint and could house the exact amount of cichlids as the other.
Some people "might" think it makes no different to the fish length or width wise, BUT it depends on what fish the person has. A person can't keep an Arowana in a tall tank. Arowan swim in lake. Lake is big. That means, Arowana needs space to move and turn.
Cichild should have a lengthy tank. NOT tall tank unless the fish is 2" that it can swim in circle. They don't escape swimming upward or downward. They have the tail to help them peddle forward with speed and then dive for cover. Evolution didn't design Cichild to swim slow, upward, or downward.
Call me a scientific maniac! Every tiny little thing on a fish that has something to do with how they will survive.
As for upgrading to bigger tank....well, it all depends on an owner and the fish. Fish can outgrow the tank. Or the owner just keeps on buying more fish. It is all personal preference. And of course, more space for fish...more exercise and swimming for the fish. Which can help them with their growth.
exactly my point, it also has to do with filtration and bioload as to what you can keep in the tank but as far as space, the footprint is all that matters to a CICHLID. I didn't say anything else I said CICHLID. A cichlids need comes from the footprint of the tank, not the heighth as I stated, lengthxwidth is what a cichlids tank should be based on. You think its comfortable for a fish that grows 12" in length to turn around in a tank thats only as wide as it is long??? Or do you think the fish only swims in one general direction its whole life?? I think you missed my point.
ok a 125 gallon and a 150 gallon you are going to get one of these two tanks for a pair of breeding jack dempseys for example. Which of these two tanks would you spend your money on, 125 gallon with 72"x18x22 150 gallon 72x18x28. Or better yet to better see what you are talking about, would you buy a 55 gallon over a 75 gallon for a single oscar since you believe length is all that matters?? A 55 gallon is cheaper and has the same exact length as a 75 gallon. The 75 gallon has the width for the Oscar to turn around in though.
Hmm...I don't think long standard fish tank bases on length only unless the owner custom made the tank, "Yeah, please make me a 48" long but 5" wide fish tank, please." :D Now...what kind of person will do that, and what kind of fish can swim in that? My point is that...when we all mentioned long tank...we are talking about the length with width at least 12".
I was adding a few things about cichilds behavior, why they need the lengthy tank and not the TALL tank. I'm using arowana as example because arowana is tropical fish and can make tight tight turn that needs lengthy tank just like cichlid. A small fish needs space as much as a big fish. You would think people will understand by observing the fish behavior. NOT! I've seen someone has a tall tank with oscar?! I give it that the oscar is still small, but oscar grows a lot within a year.
Of course fish do not go in one direction only. It depends on what's the fish origin. For instants, gold fish does not need to defend for themselves. That's why they are slow and does slooowly float upward. They can survive in tall tank but not cichild. Cichilds original environment are different from gold fish. I think I mentioned evolution, right? So I don't need to go into those boring details.
Ok! Why are we talking about all these now? Aren't we supposed to help Maverick?
Maverick has Mbune fish, not OSCAR. It is ok for Maverick to have a 55 gallons that is 48"x13". The fish still can turn. Goodness! Don't freak Maverick out to make him think that he has to go out and get a 75 gallons tank just because it is more comfortable for the fish. Oscar grows up to more than 1 foot, but Maverick fish doesn't.
Get off the topic about S and C American cichild. Maverick is talking African Cichlid. :)
As for upgrading to bigger fish tank. It is personal preference. We know about fish and stuff, but don't try to scare Maverick now. He probably is freak out by how much we spend time, money and energy on fish and fish tank. Hahah... Maverick just started. Let him learn what's best for his fish. He is just asking how to setup the fish tank. Not what tank he should upgrade to.
optix
06-20-2003, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by peifc
From my experience, cichlid likes length regarding space. If you have a tall tank, I will suggest you to upgrade to lengthy tank. Only gold fish or other oddball fish can deal with width. If you look at your fish tail, comparing with gold fish, cichlids have that fan like tail that either wave or peddle right and left to pick up speed.
My Green Terror died from jumping the tank when there was no space to swim forward. You don't want to make the same mistake that I did.
Oh really peifc, good idea. Lets not make him think he should get a bigger tank now, I mean oscars and green terrors aren't the same fish and all but they only get about the same size. Shoulda back tracked and looked at your previous posts before trying to throw the finger at me :D. I do believe you started the topic ;). I corrected your post about cichlids only needing length for those that are viewing this post and leave thinknig all that matters is they have length and go get a 55 gallon for a pair of oscars or saums. Thats why I corrected it. Not the fact that maverick might think otherwise because I've answered his same question one on one on another board, im just mopping up your mess in case someone else sees it and goes out to get a 55 gallon because cichlids only need length as you said.