All Kinda Of Problems......Help Please!

[AlisaDawn1979]

:help: Ok, so I never had an aquarium in my life...just a betta or two, in a bowl, that never lived for very long.... I reuntited with my Bio mom 2 years ago, after being seprated for 26 years.... She was explaining to me how my great grandmother, grandmother, and herself raised guppies.... She wanted me to carry this on, and teach my kids....so she got me a 29 gallon tank, and all. I set it up.... added a couple of guppies (5), and a pleco, and bottom feeder.
Well to say the least It has been up and going for almost 2 weeks, and I keep having to buy fish cause they keep dying.
I got the water tester kits, and use tap water for my tank....adding Top Fin for tap water conditner.
With the test the pet shop also gave me TLC for fresh water, and told me to use that if the Ammonia or nitrites are diffrent than 0. they also sent me home with a PH Buffer powder that if the PH was not 7.0 use it, and it fixes it.
None of it is working....for a week now !!!!!
My fish are dying, and nothing is working, and I just want to give up.... this is not obviously for me, however it means so much to my mother.... so I am still hanging in there and relize this is a cycle time, and after this things might smooth sail....but wow this is so much harder than I thought.

I did a 30% water change yesterday, and levels did not change any...i am testing in morning, and again at night.

as of right now my levels are these....

Ammonia- 2.0
Nitrite- 0.25
PH- 7.6

I also set some of my tap water out last night, and also tested it after sitting over night, and it was....

Ammonia-4.0
Nitritr- 0
PH- 7.6

Any help would be greatly appreated.
Thank you so much!

[H2OPawesome]

It doesn't sound like you cycled your tank before you added your fish....

There's a sticky about cycling your tank, you might want to read it.

other than telling you that, i'm too much of a noob to help, but someone else can tell you more, i'm sure. Good luck, guppies are a blast. I've got 2 tanks full of them, myself.

[AlisaDawn1979]

I was told that I would have to have fish in it to cycle.... please keep in mind I went into this clueless, and my mother lives up north, so she set it all up, and had fish in it before she left.... i guess to make sure I would keep my word....I now know...via intrent that there are other ways, but I have fish, and feel really bad for them.

[Mexican Racoon]

If you have only been set up for 2weeks, your tank is definitely still cycling.

do you have a filter?

Obviously, fish aren't doing well. Maybe you should take the pleco out for now, even if you have to take him back to the store. If you still have guppies left, I would cycle with them, they are already damaged for sure.

There are plenty of good articles. Just do a search on tank cycling and digest a few different write ups on the subject.

29gal is a good tank size for a beginner in my opinion. I don't know anything about breeding guppies, however.

[AlisaDawn1979]

I have a bio wheel filter for 30 gallon. I have tried to read the articals and they just really confuse me. Like I stated before I am trieng to do everything the pet store says to...water change, add the tlc bacteria stuff, and the ph buffer, and seems to me like everytime I go in there they are just tring to get my to buy something....anything.... a friend told me all the stuff they are having me buy is just causeing a chemical battle feild in my tank, so I am just lost, and confussed.

[AlisaDawn1979]

"UPDATE".........

Ok, so.... I just added all but 3 fish into a 10 gallon tank that i set up about the same time...the levels are off in this tank, but not as bad. I also rechecked the water levels....
Ammonia went from 2.0 to 1.0
Nitrites went from 0.25 to 1.0
Ph went from 7.6 to 7.2

I also took the carlage, and spomge from the 10 gallon and placed them in the bottom of the 29 gallon, do not know if this helped it any, but only been in there for about 20 min.

Any advice on now what to do????

Also I was told that the fish are already damaged..... what exactly does that mean....lol.....they will for sure die?

[wataugachicken]

okay. . . stop adding the pH buffer. it is absolutely not necessary and the store only sold it to you to make a profit. store-bought or home-bred fish can live in anything from low 6's to mid 8's. the only time you need to fiddle with the pH is when you are keeping new wild-caught fish, or trying to breed certain species which require a certain pH and water hardness for the eggs to develop properly. guppies or any kind are not in this category.

the tlc bacteria stuff is a waste of money. when i first came in contact with the product, it was actually given away free by the store with every fish purchase. there may have been live bacteria in it at one time, but after sitting on a shelf the bacteria dies. enzymes in the product may encourage bacterial growth, but doesn't do anything that a regular cycling process doesn't do. there are NO off the shelf products that contain live bacteria or make yor tank cycle.

the one exception is a product called Bio-Spira. it is actual live bacteria, kept in a sealed and refrigerated package. colder temps keep the bacteria in a 'sleeping' state so they don't run out of food and die. it has downsides - if it has been handled improperly (not kept cold) the bacteria will die off. also, it does not do an instant cycle - it cuts it down to 1-2 weeks from the usual 6-8 weeks. it is also quite expensive.

try to (quickly) find a new pet store if there is one in your area. obviously you shouldn't trust the one you have been going to. they don't care about the fish, just the money in their pocket at the end of the day.

start testing your water daily (as it seems you already are). do water changes to keep ammonia and nitrites BELOW .25. so, if you do a 50% water change, and then test the water an hour later, and it reads .5 ammonia and .25 nitrite, do another 50% water change. heck, do 60 or 70%. as long as you match the water temperature and use dechlorinator, the fish will be fine. the only thing you need to add to the tank is a dechlorinating product.

why did you move the fish from the 30g to the 10g? is the 10g cycled? probably not, since you set it up at the same time. adding all the fish to the 10g is going to make your problems even worse. a larger tank is always better because a larger volume of water allows toxins to dilute as much as possible. 1ppm in a 10g is going to be a little over .25ppm in a 30g.

oh, and stop buying new fish! wait until the tank is done cycling before adding more to it. otherwise it'll keep being problematic.

[kooter]

I think we can all feel your "frustration". We were all Newbies at one point and learned from our mistakes. You definitely came to the right place. I have learned an overwhelming amount from the posters here, listen to them and keep an open mind. Ok, now on to your question.....
The first thing is to NOT buy anymore fish and get your tank cycled like stated in the above post. The off-the-shelf pH buffers, bacteria cultures, etc. is not required, the cycling process will do it's thing in given time, (except adding Bio-Spira as mentioned.) Basically what you are looking for is testing Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrates. You will begin to read high amounts of Ammonia from the fish waste being introduced into your tank. You know the cycling process is started once this happens and you begin to see Nitrites. Once you start seeing Nitrites, your ammonia should start to drop, (as long as you don't introduce any more fishies). Then, you will see ammonia creeping closer to .25, your nitrites will start dropping and you will now start to read some nitrates. What you want in the end, which could be 4weeks or 6 weeks is 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and approx. 5-10 nitrates.
Since you are doing a fishy cycle, you can't do enough water changes.
The bacteria in your filter and around your tank will stay there, WC's have no effect on the cycling process. Once everything is cycled, do weekly WC's of 40% to get rid of any excess buildup of nitrates.
The Local Pet Stores really p**s me off when they take advantage of the beginner and cause them nothing but grief and frustration.

GOOD LUCK!

[AlisaDawn1979]

thank you all so very much..... I am going to do all that I was told, and will let you all know how it goes.

[Cory Keeper]

I know your frustration, a week or two ago I was about ready to throw in the towl after I goofed and added too much food and could not get it cycled, but I fixed the problem, and my tank was cylced in no time. Now I have 6 danios and two male guppys all sharring my tank. Don't give up, keeping fish is fun once your done with your cycle.

[Gregr]

I'd say be sure to read the cycle sticky if you haven't. Don't overfeed your fish as that will raise the ammonia and maybe get some real plants to reduce nitrates too. Does any1 know if the product Cycle actually works?

[furfinsfeathers]

I don't have any experience with Cycle or Biospira, but but Biospira is highly recommended here if one needs to cycle quickly.

[Rbishop]

I would recommend switching to Prime for your water conditioner, especially if your tap water really has that high of ammonia.

What test kit are you using...a good liquid style or the unreliable test dip strips?

SInce you stuck doing a fishy cycle, keep up water changes daily, of 50%, to keep nitrites at zero. You may still see ammonia, but if you are using Prime, it will be locked into a non-toxic form to prevent the fish from being damaged but still available for the bacteria to develop. The nitrites will be the indication of the need for a water change.

Once the bacteria colony develops to the bio-load you have, you should see your tap ammonia disappear in 24 hrs, and you should see the nitrites disappear quickly. Then do water changes as necessary to keep nitrates below 20-30.

[Marinemom]

Do as stated above and use the "Prime" water conditioner. Also just as a side note, The product "Cycle" Is garbage and a total waste of money. The only chemical that you need to add to the tap water you use for the tank is the water conditioner. Forget all of that other junk that the LFS is trying to sell to you.

Marinemom

[Carp37]

I agree with Rbishop- I'd never heard of fishless cycling and was in the middle of horrendous new tank syndrome when I joined this site- if ammonia is showing, and later also if nitrite is showing, then 50% (dechlorinated) water changes are necessary for about 4 weeks- it will seem like all you ever do is take water out of the fish tank and put it back in; then suddenly, after 5-6 weeks, everything's rosy and you only have to change 25% every week or so. If you do change 50% or so of the water every day you'll probably not lose any fish, though they'll still be going through a bit of trauma especially if ammonia is still present- without the water changes you will lose fish because without the bacteria, they're basically living in a toilet

[StereoKills]

Everyone here is a wealth of information. I didn't know squat when I got my first setup. In fact, the LFS sold me 8 Comets and 2 Koi to go into my 10G! There are exceptions, but I have found that the most reliable information comes from people who are NOT taking your money!

[jac8724]

Im kind of a newbie myself, but wont the pleco eat the babies?