Fish Selection - Suggestions requested. (long)

[Umbra_Vipera]

I'm about to complete the refinishing of my aquarium stand, so I'll begin the acutal setup of the aquarium system in the very near future. In an attempt to be proactive in my setup, I'm wanting to select the fish (on paper), study their needs, and build the tank for those I select. What does everyone think about the selection listed below?

The tank will be a 75 gallon with fuge (AquaFuge Pro-small version). In the fuge will a DSB, chaeto, LR rubble (if I can find some) and with some further knowledge lots of critters to feed to the tank inhabitants. Also, after some period of time, I will introduce some corals (type unknown) and an anemone that hopefully my clownfish will host. Let's not forget to include some sort of clean up crew (variety unknown at this point.)

Currently I have:
Yellow Stripe Maroon Clownfish (http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=107)(Premnas biaculeatus) (http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=107)
http://liveaquaria.com/images/products/large/p_69469.jpg
This will be the initial inhabitant. I may try to introduce a second one in an attempt to have a pair, but I'm still not sure if I will bother.

Future considerations:
Yellowhead Jawfish (Opistognathus aurifrons) (http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=188)
http://liveaquaria.com/images/products/large/p_71432.jpg
According to the web site these are moderately difficult to keep, so this would not be introduced for some time. However, they require a deep substrate in the tank. Further information also reveals that they would require larger particle sizes than what I intended to use. So what other substrate would everyone recommend? Would it be alright to mix in say 25% crushed coral with the sugar sized and small size aragonite to give them the building material they need?

Spotted Mandarin (Synchiropus picturatus) (http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=554) or
Green Mandarin (Synchiropus splendidus) (http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=551)
http://liveaquaria.com/images/products/large/p_71341.jpg http://liveaquaria.com/images/products/large/p_71302.jpg

One of these will be the star of the show. As newbie I WILL NOT be introducing either one anytime soon. The goal however is to create an environment suited to it's care. Therefore, the entire ecosystem will revolve around the needs of this fish. Hopefully in a year or so one of these will be happy campers.

Needed feedback:
As you can see I have two bottom dwellers selected and one middle of the road guy. I would kind of like to have some sort of cleaner for the algae and/or something that likes to swim around and not sit in one spot. It obviously has to be reef safe and non-aggressive. If possible, I would like to be able to introduce it within 3 to 6 months of the tank cycle. Any ideas?

[bladeruner143]

I would add some Nassirus Snails since you have a DSB. They are awesome to look at during feeding time. I had a Neon Goby in my tank with a pair of clowns and they got along very well. The Goby had tons of personality! He occasionally "cleaned" the clowns also.

[tanker]

1) Good Luck on trying to get a pair of Maroons. They are the meanest of clowns. If you want a pair, buy two small ones and hope they pair.

2) I have never had a Jaw-fish, but have heard they are hardy. Yes, CC is better for them. If you want fine sand this is not the fish for it, besides needing about 3-4 inch of sand minimum.

3) Mandarins are very picky eatters. You are right in waiting a year for tank to establish, but you may still not have enough PODs for it to eat. You can always buy PODs on-line.

[Max]

Hello, I would add the maroons last ! They are very hardy but, they are also very testy and often times don't take well to new introductions into their territory. If you add them towards the end of your introductions ,"and DON'T have any other clowns!!!" you'll have a much more peacful tank. If you want a pair I'd introduce two juveniles to make sure you don't end up with well a murder scene.
The other fish you have listed will do quite well but, they both need very well established tanks in order to live . You should mix some larger particles into your sand if you'd like to have a jaw fish. They will need some sort of structural support for their tunnels. You won't need much maybe a cup of shells etc per lb of sand.
The mandrin will need a tank that's at least 4 or 5 months old with out any other pod eaters in order to thrive.
hth
Max

[Umbra_Vipera]

Thanks for the input!

The clown is not optional. She/he is in a 10 gallon qt awaiting the setup of the 75. This poor fish was part of deal I got on an aquarium so it's here. That's why I made the comment that I might not bother attempting to pair it. :thumbsup:

I was hoping that the intro of an anemone would give the clown a "spot" that might be smaller than the entire aquarium. However, since anemones and all the fish I have selected really need an established aquarium, it may not work, because by the time the system is established, the clown is probably gonna own that tank.

I may have just found an excuse to setup that second 75 I bought! :woot:

[Max]

You could get a un-sexed maroon " really imature male but, for all practiacal intents", and keep it in a critter keeper for a while and hope that his lady will except him. I wouldn't ever get an anemone just for clowns to host in. The great majority of clowns are captive raised and have no idea what an anem is and won't pay much attention to it.

[Grins]

Oh boy, I'd keep the maroon in a separate setup and add it last. I'd not trust it to go first in the display.

[Almondsaz]

As mentioned you need a clean-up crew: hermits, trubo and nassarius snails. The mandarin would require a mature system of at least 6 months to allow for the right level of pods to grow - and they are picky eaters. While a bit of a beast I really like the gold stripe maroon clown and the suggestion of adding last makes a lot of sence. What kind of lighting are you leaning towards? and are you going for mostly softies for the corals? If you are getting a jaw fish...have you looked/seen the blue spotted? I really like them but they are about $100 around here and very seasonal for some reason...and they can be jumpers. I have a bi-color blenny and he is one of my favorite fish, lots of personality. Depending on what fish additions, adding a couple of peppermint shrimp helps keep pest anem's down and a cleaner shrimp is just fun to watch as it trys to get a fish to let it groom it.

Sounds like you are making a lot of sound choices and taking your time.

[Umbra_Vipera]

The mandarin would require a mature system of at least 6 months to allow for the right level of pods to grow - and they are picky eaters. ... What kind of lighting are you leaning towards? and are you going for mostly softies for the corals? If you are getting a jaw fish...have you looked/seen the blue spotted? I really like them but they are about $100 around here and very seasonal for some reason...and they can be jumpers. ...

Sounds like you are making a lot of sound choices and taking your time.
First let me say thanks to everyone for the feed back!

Here is what I'm thinking at this point. Based on everyone's feed back the recommendation is to wait on the clown...this might be possible since I seem to have stabalized the itty bitty 10 gallon qt tank he/she is in. He/she also seems to be rather happy to take food from my fingers so sort of a happy camper. The WAF will decrease greatly if I do this...but...

The mandarin will most likely end up being the last fish. I don't know if I can stand to have my poor clown in that 10 gallon for 6 months to a year. It just doesn't seem right. OTOH, having to move the clown from tank to tank in order to disrupt it's territory, may not be the way to go either...IDK!

I have seen and read about the blue spotted jawfish. While this would a fantastic fish to add, I'm a little concerned about it's care and price. If I get my tank cycled properly, wait on the clown and place the jawfish in first (which seems to be the general recommendation), I would hate to loose a $100 fish because of a newbie mistake. Don't get me wrong...I am going to make every effort to avoid killing my fish...but I am only human after all. Plus, availability will be an issue. Again, keeping in mind my poor jailed clown, I don't want to have to wait an extended period of time to receive the first fish.

Lighting - I'm wide open on this. I have available a couple of nice fixtures. I have Coralife Lunar 48" compact fluorescent fixture that is operational. 2x20k bulbs and 2xactinics with blue led night lights. I also have a Hamilton Tech. MH system that contains 2x175 watt bulbs and 2xT-12s. This fixture will require that I purchase a new ballast box from Hamilton and bulbs (not from Hamilton). If I place 6" of substrate in the bottom of the tank for the jawfish, my tank will only end up being 15" deep (21"-6"=15"). With that shallow of water, I could probably get by with incandescent. j/k

Corals - I have not even begun to research this area as of yet. This is the big WAF area. She is looking for "movement" in the aquascape. She doesn't want a "static" display. Based on what little I have read and knowing that I will eventually have more than enough light...the sky should be the limit. Therefore, I'm more than happy to take recommendations in this area.

[Grins]

Have you considered a goby instead of the jawfish? Lots of personality and won't need the DSB.

[Umbra_Vipera]

Have you considered a goby instead of the jawfish? Lots of personality and won't need the DSB.
That question get's me into a whole other area that I'm not yet comfortable with...my refugium and DSBs.

Basically, the mandrin is the fish that I'm really attempting to build the tank for. The Jawfish was just a real nice addition for what I was going to do.

Generally speaking, I don't think that what I will be using for a fuge will actually be quite big enough to properly "grow" enough pods to ensure the health of the mandrin. So a DSB in the tank makes sense there. Another bonus, or so I thought, would be an additional DSB for filtration...BUT (and there's always a but)...the jawfish require substrate particles larger than sugar size for their borrows. I'm guessing that the larger particle sizes would also better suite the pod propagation, but I really don't know. The only real down side to the particle sizes is that the substrate might not be able to build an effective anerobic zone for water filtration. I'm guessing that if I have enough lr (tank and fuge) and a solid anerobic zone in the fuge that the filtration should be ok so this point may be moot. Please keep in mind, I intend to use sugar size as well as slightly larger particles in addition to "limited" crushed shells, etc, for building materials for the jaw fish in the tank. The fuge will be all sugar sized particles.

[Grins]

I have a larger aragonite substrate that my dragon goby can still sift yet will hold up when he builds mounds. He doesn't burrow but from what I've read it would hold up for some burrowers as well. I'm just thinking you wouldn't need a DSB if you went with one of the gobies versus a jawfish and they both have similiar active personalities.

[Umbra_Vipera]

I am by no means set on the Jawfish and gobies are good alternative from what I've read. My main point was for pod propagation for the mandrin. I haven't had enough time as of yet to really research pod propagation to know what I really need. As usual, I may be going over kill on what I think I need.

[Subliminal]

On your fuge:

I would, if i were you, get the largest one you can. I have a medium on my 29g and it's adequate, but i would have gotten the larger if possible. There's really no reason not too. Especially with such a big tank.

Now, even if you get the large fuge, a DSB in the fuge isn't going to be big enough to impact the whole tank. I don't even think it'd be enough on my tank, and it's half the size of yours.

Here's what I would suggest:

Get the biggest fuge possible. Put about 1/2 inch of sand on the bottom. Break up a rock into a few small chunks and put those on the sand. Get some chaeto from someone, and a bottle of tigger pods (made by reef nutrition), dump 3/4 of the pods into the fuge and 1/4 in the tank.

In a month, get another bottle of pods.

The reason I suggest this is because this is exactly what I did, and after 3 months I have so many pods in both my fuge and display tank. And I have a scooter blenny in a 4 month old tank that is getting super fat. He, if you don't know, is like the mandarin's lil bro. He's a dragonette that doesn't accept normal food and lives off the lil creatures in the tank...same as a mandarin.

In my display, where the rock comes close to the glass, there are millions of those lil pods.

On my magfloat, when I look in between the bristles and the glass, millions more.

I know a mandarin eats more than a blenny due to their size, but hey...this works for me, so i don't know why it wouldn't work for someone else. :)

[Umbra_Vipera]

Subliminal,

Are you saying to skip the DSB in the fuge, go with a DSB in the tank, and setup the fuge for strickly pod production? If that is correct, then my question would be will mixed particle sizes in the tank (for borrow builders) be effective?

As far as the fuge is concerned, I have a CPR Aquafuge Pro that I will be using as the fuge.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m127/Umbra_Vipera/AquariumPhotos/th_AquaFugePro.jpg (http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m127/Umbra_Vipera/AquariumPhotos/AquaFugePro.jpg)

Dimensions: 32" L x 12" W x 14.5" T
http://www.cpraquatic.com/products/aquafugepro.html (http://www.cpraquatic.com/products/aquafugepro.html)

I will be using an external protein skimmer which in my case will be powered by an external pump, plus an external return pump. Because of that, things inside my stand will be tight. I don't remember the actual length of the fuge compartment, but is only about 7" high to the input and output of the area. So I could go to about 4" of sand to still have room for the chaeto (already here and growing) and LR rubble.

:topic: but the skimmer I'm going to use isLifereef (http://www.lifereef.com/) unit. While I don't have any experience with unit, I spoke with the guy that builds them last night and all I can say is WOW! I had contacted him via e-mail to ask a question about plumbing the skimmer. He wanted to call me to discuss the unit. I called him instead, but I was on the phone with him for over an hour last night because he wanted to make sure that I knew how to correctly setup the skimmer. I bought it USED...not directly from him, but he still wanted to make sure that I was satisfied with the product. Also, he told me that if I needed any help to contact him. NOW THAT'S CUSTOMER SERVICE!

[Subliminal]

What i meant about the sand is that the area is not great enough to provide any amount of filtration that would be noticeable on a 55g.

The only problem i see on your fuge is that it's made to use the built-in skimmer, and that's a lot of wasted space if you aren't going to use it. I wonder if you could modify it to take out the skimmer area.

Either way, DSB or not, I'm sure it will work for you...I just think that amount of sand is going to be a lost cause.

[Umbra_Vipera]

FWIW, the tank is a 75 gallon and not a 55. :)

As for the skimmer area in the fuge. I don't totally disagree with your assessment; however, there are two reasons that I can think of for keeping this is area intact.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m127/Umbra_Vipera/AquariumPhotos/SumpSetupExternalSkimmerver2.jpg

The first is the fact that it will somewhat (not totally) act as a bubble trap. With the correct mods it would work perfectly. Secondly, as you follow the arrows in the image above, the smaller area (light diffuser) is sectioned for the use of filter media if ever needed. I was actually considering the possibility of placing more algae in the drain (skimmer) section in an attempt to get the ideal "tumble" for the algae. May work may not.

As far as the dsb goes...if the general opinion is that the fuge isn't big enough for one, then I got no problem saving my money. :grinyes: I'll put it in the tank instead.